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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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American Muscle Car

I just watched American Muscle Car and they put together an engine segment to put to rest just who had the baddest engine at the start of the "muscle car" era. They compared the original factory rated H.P. #'s to actual dyno results. All the engines were built to original spec with original carb(s), distributor, heads, and original blueprint spec camshafts, and original replacement pistons. None were allowed more than a .060 overbore, but were kept as close to std. as allowable by current bore.

The candidates were: 409 Chevy, rated at 409HP. Dynoed 406HP
427 Tunnel Port Ford, Rated at 425HP. Dynoed 637HP.
421 Pontiac, rated at 425HP. Dynoed 488HP.
426 Street Hemi, rated at 425HP. Dynoed 820HP.
427 L-88 Fat-Rat, rated at 425HP. Dynoed around 550HP. (I think) I actually missed the final readings of the L-88 but I'm sure it was around the 550HP mark. What was cool is they did this with the engines built as they were, no aftermarket parts.

Just thought I'd share that with ya. It was awesome. :P
They're doing another show with other engines soon, hope they put the 429 CJ/SCJ to the test.



Doug... 8)

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] '86 F150... 521 w/ FRPP SCJ Heads, Glide...
Best ET: 1/8---6.17 @ 112 mph N/A @ 1200'
6.34 @ 112 mph N/A @ 5000'
1/4---9.73 @ 136 mph N/A @ 1200'
9.97 @ 135 mph N/A @ 5000'
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 04:24 AM
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Pretty significant difference on the Hemi and 427 Ford! Back in the day with good tires those cars would have been super fast for drive it off the lot street cars. Chris
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 06:01 AM
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Some of those are pretty big figures.
Is this another one of your jokes Thndrchkn? LOL.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 06:11 AM
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hard to believe to 820 hp hemi....very hard. I've always heard the 440 cars would take them out when running stock to stock.

65 F100 shortbox, soon to be 460/C6 equipped
66 Mustang coupe, its pretty quick
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 07:26 AM
 
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my mother had a hemi charger when I was a half pint & it was fast............but there ain't no way in hell it would out run my 600 hp capri & no way it had anywhere close to 820 hp, I don't buy it :roll:
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah I was thinking the same thing. They probably gave the Hemi some added dressing to make it as bad as it looked. But hey, anything's possible. BUT!! I still can't believe they didn't hype the two Chevy motors more like the Dodge.



Doug... 8)

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] '86 F150... 521 w/ FRPP SCJ Heads, Glide...
Best ET: 1/8---6.17 @ 112 mph N/A @ 1200'
6.34 @ 112 mph N/A @ 5000'
1/4---9.73 @ 136 mph N/A @ 1200'
9.97 @ 135 mph N/A @ 5000'
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 11:08 AM
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Tunnelport kicks some butt! Hemi numbers are high and I am only guessing here but maybe the hemi was a full boogie Nascar engine? I'll believe that those hp numbers could be achieved with 2x4 carbs with a racing hemi back to good ole days.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 11:43 AM
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I guess I should have introduced myself, seeing that this is actually my first post to this forum. I joined a while back, but I have been waiting until I got a good question to ask, or something to talk about (I've got a D0VE block, D0VE-C heads, and a '66 Galaxie waiting to come together. I've torn the engine down, and waiting on the Fundage fairy to hit me for a build-up). In the meantime, I've been searching through the archives a lot. (Which is excellent, btw).

Now for my post: I watched the show last night, and since I saw a '65 Galaxie stomping down a track, I had to tape it (it ran again this morning on SPEED), so if you've got a question about the show, let me know and I'll search through it.

The numbers on the Mopar are impressive, but I wonder how equal the engines were in terms of overbore, cam, etc. The show stated that cams could be "blueprinted" but for the most part, stock (not sure how to interpret that). I am wondering if the Mopar engine had a bit more of an advantage in its interpretation of "stock." Of course, that could be true for the other engines. I remember pumping my fist when the Ford numbers were given, and shouting out "ha-haa!" like Nelson from the Simpsons when the Chevy numbers were given, but I'd have to look carefully at the show for the compression ratios, carburetion and whatever.

They also tested the Chevy 409. At the end of the show, they said that other engine tests were in the works, including Buick and Oldsmobile engines. I really would like to see that 429 CJ engine, also.

Matt
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 11:53 AM
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I call BS on the Hemi being a ''blueprinted stocker''.That's almost 2hp per inch.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 12:23 PM
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Shhhh..... :lol:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...gonew=1#UNREAD

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 12:59 PM
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I knew that Hemi sounded rather "crisp and healthy"..... To me sounded like a NHRA Stk Elim cam with 12:1 compression with the better flowing "repro" heads, intake, and reinforced block.....

Brian

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBlockRanger
Duuuuuude. That's just wrong. Thanks for the link, though!

I can see someone working on the show making sure that the other competition played fair, like a Chevy guy double-checking the Ford engines, but that's crappy to sabotage a national show, and then giggle about it on the frickin' internet! Also, how does he get off pointing out that "tunnel ports" weren't really stock but some over-the-counter upgrade, while he's giggling that he helped out the hemi with bigger (as in NOT STOCK) carburetors?????

Plus, if you're going to sabotage something, I think I would recommend against going to such extremes. "Shucks, that's a stock enginge: stock heads, stock cam, stock blah-blah-blah. 820 hp isn't unusual." Yeah, not even the other Mopar fans are buying it.

However, that means the Ford was for the most part stock, and it ran very high numbers without "undivulged" modifications. :P
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
In defense of the Hemi, we had a week (at our expense) to put together 3 motors, none of which are easy to get parts for. The hemi is an iron headed motor with steel rods, and a flat tappet cam. FAST motors make 850 and SS motors make over 900 now. Yes that motor has more work in it than it should, but we used what we had at the shop for motors in progress.

Remember television is for entertainment, much like the internet, so don't read too much into it. Also, it's not like it was a secret kept from the production.
Quoted from that link. :roll:

Stevo
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 10:27 PM
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Re: American Muscle Car

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Originally Posted by ThndrChkn
427 L-88 Fat-Rat, rated at 425HP. Dynoed around 550HP. (I think) I actually missed the final readings of the L-88 but I'm sure it was around the 550HP mark.
Hey, Thndrchkn, I rewound the tape of the show (I was actually looking for that '65 Galaxie again) and found the numbers on the L88: they printed on the screen that it was 527 hp and 501 torque, though they said something different for torque later, but that's what I saw, and frankly, what you'd expect, though I think that was a real conservative build. Also, the L88 tested had an 850 holley and 12.5:1 cr. I think the Ford had 11.25:1 for cr.

Not even going to mention that Mopar again. :roll:

Hope they have some good ones lined up in the future. I know, it's just tv, and therefore not realistic, but hey, beats that American Idol cr*p!
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 11:21 PM
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426 Hemi..820 hp no way. I have a family friend that owns an original B-4 Hemi roadrunner w/ 17,000 original miles. Ive road in it many times , noway does that "ELEPHANT" come anywhere close to an 800 hp street car :roll:

At one time I owned a 2400 lbs supergas nova w/ iron headed smallblock that ran 9.90 , my buddies hemi was lucky to get in the 12's
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