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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-28-2007, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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drag race c4 thread (pics)

Well I beat the snot out of this tranny, I went through it about 6 years ago and since then put about 200 runs in the 10.30 - 10.60 range, about another 70 in the 10.70 - 10.90 and 17 in the 9.70

John Deere Hyguard tractor hydraulic oil with a couple quts of mercon to give it some tint.

All launches were made off the brake, I use a 2 step to limit rpm to 4000 - 4400 depending.

All burnouts made in 2nd gear, no neutraling at the end of the run.

direct clutch (also called reverse, but this is high gear and is the biggest failure)

This is the first run of Alto reds and Kolenes, 6 and 6, no slip or heat build up, there were some issues with the holes in the steels not deburred well and would eat into the friction a bit which there was evidence of on a few.

Forward clutch

This is a stock Borg warner tan friction and steel plate, 5 and 5. I can read the letters on them still.

Intermediate band

Just a very slight amount of heat evident, this is an older style kevlar, I have a newer version I'm going to use

seems to have a little more surface area available, both are flex type. I have seen some available in Alto red and carbon, I know for sure the kevlar may have a bit less holding coefficient but you cant burn the damn thing up,,,,hardly.

I use an older Transking transbrake Vb setup, toss their intermediate servo cover in the trash and use one thats got a 0ring to seal it along with the paper gasket (paper will push out eventually)

The one I had was an ancient JPT unit, the cover we got for my brothers is a PA billet, toss the piston, weld up the small vent drilled into it and roll.

I use a 3 pinion roller forward planet I got from Dynamic 6 years ago, stock rev planet, the forward drum is a silicon bronzed jellybean hole brazed unit from Dynamic as well.

A good input shaft is a must.

This is a full roller unit, I also used a c5 case which has bigger cooler fittings and a fine thread int. adj screw.

Almost considering updating this thing a bit and sticking behind the big motor now, might put an alum int drum that holds 7 and 7 (sounds good right now lol) and add another disc to the forward, get a 2.20 gearset to help the little tires stand a chance.

These tranny's suck........... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-28-2007, 09:20 PM
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Dang Jon looks like you build a tough tranny !! Little booger looks new!
Cant wait to get the c6 back together I know I got the right man for the job !
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-28-2007, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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you might get it back after I get done jackin with my own stuff :roll:

You wont break it ..............

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-28-2007, 09:26 PM
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LOL. I beleive you after seeing the inside of the C4 I wont have the power you have put through that thing :shock:
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-28-2007, 11:51 PM
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Nice work Jon and thanks for sharing the pics ,that is impressive..I wouldn't be changing too much in there with those results.
So those red clutches you say are the first of them,are they .060" thick or thicker ,just wondering since they changed them ,mine are smooth other thans two grooves ,just curious since i like the waffles or groove patterns on the high reverse though mine with the smooth clutches shifts nice anyway.
What sort of clearances do you run in those drums and any idea what line pressure ???
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 09:26 AM
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I've been running a C4 for a couple of years now and the only problem I had was the front planet thrust washers. I run a t-brake at about 3000 rpm. I have 6 & 6 in the drums and run some pretty tight clearances in the clutch packs. That trans shifts quick, like its shifting before I can finish moving the shifter. I think I need to open up the clearance a little because the shifts are brutal, it chirps the tires going into 3rd w/ 28x10.5 slicks.

I also recomend an input shaft upgrade, I bought a PA 4340 shaft for mine.


Looks like I could add roller thrusts to it now?

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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gotta run a rollerized forward planet, I'll get some more pics after while.

I run 0.050-0.055 in the direct, seems to be the magic number with the set up I use.

The newer Altos are the same thickness, just use a few radial grooves instead of the waffle cut.

I dont remember the line pressure numbers, seems on the brake they were pretty scary though.

I did some midnight pondering and I can get an extra disc in each pack, may just do that for now and see how much the little bastard will take.

The transking intermediate piston is a stocker, you cut the sealing ring land back on the smaller step to allow the whole diameter of the piston to be used for apply. Vent the backside, and use the spring they provide for return, its pretty stout I tell ya.

Another key is use a nice thick cast alum pan, this will act as a girdle and keep the case from spreading under high pressures and thus allow the bands to hold bettter. The thin alum sheetmetal units and stamped steel stockers will flex some.
Stuff is small in them, but for the size the parts are really beefy.

I found the invoice for the parts on the last build, 9-10-2000, she did well.

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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 11:39 AM
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keep the info coming guys....

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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 12:06 PM
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Hey guys I just had my trans freshen and a Art Carr brake added and you cant even tell that its shifted in to 2nd gear. you can fell third though. This is a bracket only car so I'v not been able to take it to the track yet,since I don't get my trailer for 3 weeks yet. any Ideas on what I an do to firm up the shifts? Mainly 2nd gear

Ace
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 12:35 PM
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remember art carr trans is only a name. he sold out in the past. art carr is at cpt trans. http://www.cpttransmission.com/.
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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I dont have any experience with any other vb's other than my Transking, which I love the way it works. We have another TK vb in our fox car which is a newer version and have had some issues with it in the past, I know it operates a bit different than mine as I can back in either "r" or "n" by pushing the t brake button, his will only back in "n".

We did have band problems with it as well but once we stuck the thick cast pan on it they went away.

As I remembered there are other differences in a c5 over a std c4 case, the c5 has more meat in the pan rail area, there may be other c4 cases with the thicker rail, I dont know, I compared between mine and brothers pan pill c4, both use a push in modulator.

I need to rollerize the rev planet, as mine still uses the thrust washers.

Did the math and 6 in the forward and 7 in the direct is doable with what I have, need to send some parts to my machinist buddy.

Also need to work on the int band apply strut, it cocks in the piston rod a bit, I can remedy that no problem.

69 Grande'
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys I just had my trans freshen and a Art Carr brake added and you cant even tell that its shifted in to 2nd gear. you can fell third though. This is a bracket only car so I'v not been able to take it to the track yet,since I don't get my trailer for 3 weeks yet. any Ideas on what I an do to firm up the shifts? Mainly 2nd gear
Put the hyguard tractor fluid in it, you will feel a difference.

Also is this from just running it on a set of jackstands or actually driving it down the road?

On stands you will not feel the shift unless you load the rear axle with the brakes, even then its gonna feel soft and the only way to see or feel the gear change is with the tach.

69 Grande'
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 05:14 PM
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I'v been only able to test it on a set of jack stands at the moment. I can't very well drive it down the street with open headers and the police dept only 5 blocks away lol. But the old valve body was a stock unit with just a shift kit and it really would shift hard from first to second and even brake the slicks loose and chirp the tires. But just testing this one really doesn't give me any confidense in this company. I all ready had to ship it back once because there waws no 2nd gear at all. So I dropped the valve body and air tested the clutch packs and they semmed to apply ok. then I sent the valve body back and they saids the separator plate was warpped because of miss installation (right), and repaired it at no cost. funny thing was when I got it back there seem to be a extra spool valve and some different clips as well ( go figure). so just buy bolting it in and testing it there is 2nd gear now but seems like a week shift. I'v always used a valvoline synthetic fluid sincce the life of this trans which started 20 years ago. I wish i could find a book on these for a performance build rather than just a rebuild. Any suggestions?

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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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well, like I said mine you cant tell the 1-2 o the stands, on the track is a diff story.

I know of no such books, do a search on here, c4 monster thread.

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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 06:36 PM
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Jon are you running this behind your big block? I'm still in the planning stages for a big block up grade in the 66 stang. I need to install a mustang front end first then make the switch. We were planning to running this car with a upgraded 306 ( victor heads c.i. cam and a parker funnel web, and the freshed c-4 with the trans brake) and getting the boy use to it be for swicthing over. we were hoping to use the same trans and use the jw sfi belhousing to go behind the big block,but not sure what else I need the converter is a no brainer but what flywheel and what other up grades to he c-4. My stuff that came out of the c-4 looked like new as well and it would not surprise me if the tranny guy only put gaskets and seals in it. we have been pushed back from our april-may testing due to work comittments and the trailer was pushed back till Aug 10th. and the tranny brake problems as well. If I run the tractor fluid what should I look for or feel (shifting launch stall speed?) I have a tractor store just 3-4 blocks away so it would be no problem getting it. How does it come quarts,1/2 gallons ? and cost?

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