Valve spring videos! - 460 Ford Forum
Chilly's Garage A place for non-460 banter.

User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Duane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Duane is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 11:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: vancouver, washington
Posts: 607
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
 
i had no idea the springs turned like that wierd
tubais is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 10:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cuba MO
Posts: 5,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
 
That was great! Thanks for the video. The spring, valve and retainer should not rotate with this type of valvetrain and it can only do so if there is separation. That spring really has a tough job and it gets a whole lot tougher when things are going out of control.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic --Arthur C. Clarke

Dave McLain
McLain's Automotive
DaveMcLain is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 11:16 AM
dfree383
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Make's you wonder how any part can live thru that abuse.
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 12:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cuba MO
Posts: 5,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
 
Yes because you have to remember that we're looking at a slow motion version of what's happening. The spring and valve stem are really moving around VERY rapidly, it's tough to believe that it can flex back and forth that far and that rapidly without breaking.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic --Arthur C. Clarke

Dave McLain
McLain's Automotive
DaveMcLain is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 12:38 PM
Senior Member
 
jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philadelphia, Mississippi
Posts: 4,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Am I not mistaken that Ti valves would move around a lot more?
jones is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 04:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Merkel Texas
Posts: 543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcLain
That was great! Thanks for the video. The spring, valve and retainer should not rotate with this type of valvetrain and it can only do so if there is separation. That spring really has a tough job and it gets a whole lot tougher when things are going out of control.
So, is that the deal with the beehive's spinning like a top?

1967 Falcon 4 door
Owner built, owner abused.
http://raceabilene.com/misc/hisnherspic.jpg
Falcon67 is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 05:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cheraw, SC
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Dave when you say seperation is causing the rotation, what do you mean by seperation? I noticed in the videos that when the rpms increased the roation speed increased before a valve event happend. Also why if the valve is opening would you have rotation as well? Spring accelerating faster than valve?
Monstermiler is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Duane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
About 20 years ago, the 460 I had in the Mustang snapped a valve (2 piece) where the stem was welded on. It happened on the 2-3 shift, the trans would "flare" on that shift. I figure since it was a nitrous pass, the flare helped cause valve float, which broke the valve. The guy that did all my machine work explained it to me that when that happens, the spring will snap the valve, due to it not following the cam. Kind of like taking a piece of string, getting some slack in it and popping it in two. You can see the valve bounce in the video.
Funny, the car still ran 7.30 (1/8) with a hole in the head, ingesting water, and sending all the pieces back through the engine. I thought I had burned a spark plug....It still ran, I had no idea of the damage inside. I have the piston with pieces of valve still stuck in it.
Duane is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 08:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 1231 Upper Trace, Owensboro,KY 42303
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jones
Am I not mistaken that Ti valves would move around a lot more?
Jones,

No, they won't move around a lot more. In essence if a stainless steel valve is experiencing valve float, and the valve weighs say 170 gms (for example), then if you replaced it with a equal size & dimensioned titanium valve that weighs 120 gms (for example),,,,,,,,then the same springs that were unable to control the stainless steel valve, will be able to control the lighter titanium valve.

The science principle that pertains to this is Sir Issac Newtons second Law of Motion. The formula is F=MxA (force=mass x acceleration). By reducing the mass (think weight) of the valve, then the force required to control the valve becomes less.

Hope this helps,

Charlie Evans
c.evans is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 10:06 PM
kim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstermiler
Dave when you say seperation is causing the rotation, what do you mean by seperation? I noticed in the videos that when the rpms increased the roation speed increased before a valve event happend. Also why if the valve is opening would you have rotation as well? Spring accelerating faster than valve?
Spring oscillation (movement) is so uncontrolled due to either spring tension ie pressure or fatigue that it isn't maintaining pace/contact between the valve retainer and seat. In order for the spring to spin free like that it has to have minimum (no) tension. Basically when its spinning wildly like that, the valve is not following the cam......
kim is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 07:43 AM
Senior Member
 
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
 
Are we sure this video is in slow-mo? I always thought that these videos were shot in "real time" and only looked to be in slow-motion because they shoot them with a strobe light phased to the rocker RPM to better isolate the valve train action.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.S. Dave::
460 street '66 Ranchero.......................finished someday.
460 race '70 Maverick..........................finished someday.
All 'glass Top Sportsman '69 Mustang......ummm, check back when I win big playing the Texas Lotto, or online poker.
My youtube page. Some ancient & newer local race video.

Join the Poker Players Alliance (theppa.org). US online poker should NOT be turned into a crime.
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.S. is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 08:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rocky Point, Mexico
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
Thanks for sharing Duane. For sure, incorrect springs could cause severe damage to an engine, specially if it you spin it at high rpm. I got a bad experience with the guy who "ported" my DOVES, i told him to put springs for a solid roller. He said he did it, but he didn,t. He put single springs. You could guess what happened. I paid the price for been a rookie.
So, use the matched spring only guys.

Homer

1993 Bronco
460, performer intake,850 holley,msd 6al, b&m shifter
In my garage waiting to see some action:
Dove-C heads
Victor Intake
1.7 comp cams rockers
Crower Solid Roller cam
3500 rpm hughes converter.
BLACKBRONCO is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 08:59 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rocky Point, Mexico
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
 
By the way, does anybody know wich is the max lift that a DOVE-C head can support?

Thanks

Homer

1993 Bronco
460, performer intake,850 holley,msd 6al, b&m shifter
In my garage waiting to see some action:
Dove-C heads
Victor Intake
1.7 comp cams rockers
Crower Solid Roller cam
3500 rpm hughes converter.
BLACKBRONCO is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 460 Ford Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome