How much octane is TOO much?? - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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How much octane is TOO much??

Hey guys,

Just talked with a local fuel supplier--I have brain cramps!

I want to purchase a 55 gallon drum of fuel for our Mustang.

We currently are running Torco 116 fuel.

The fuel supplier is recommending we change over to Torco NOS 116 because we do have a 300 shot NOS system on the motor (but have never used it). The motor is a 525 CI with 12.75 to 1 CR.

Car runs consistant 9.50s on the 116 we are using now. We were working out suspension issues as we just tubbed the car. Car is now going straight and we may use the NOS during our next test & tune.

Any opinons on what is the BEST fuel to use?

Can you go too high and hurt your motor with 118 or 120?

Thanks,

Bruce

Any day drag racing is a GOOD day.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 05:37 PM
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You won't hurt the motor with the higher octane, but you may loose a little hp. IMO the fuel your using is sufficient for the compression your running and it probably not worth the extra $$$ for the higher octane fuel
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 05:42 PM
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Octane

The octane content of the fuel controls the burn rate. The higher the octane content, the SLOWER the burn rate, so no...higher octane fuel won't hurt your engine, but it might hurt your ETs if it burns too slowly for the engine design or spark advance settings being used.

Lower octane fuel might hurt your engine. At some point, you reach critical temperature and pressure for the given octane and the fuel becomes an explosive rather than a propellant. Spark advance changes the peak pressure the cylinder achieves; retarding the spark ends up creating less cylinder pressure and is how most people avoid detonation.

A couple of deg of spark below where the mixture detonates is usually peak power. If the total advance value gets too small, the engine gets inefficient and will benefit from more octane and more spark advance. For example, if you try to run 87 octane on an 11:1 engine, your total advance will probably end up under 20deg. In that case, you're much better off running more octane so you can increase the advance and get the combustion event into an area of the engine geometry where it will make the most power.

So the real question is...how much advance can you run now before you start seeing signs of detonation? That will give us some indication of whether or not more octane might be of benefit, or is simply a waste of money and effort.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Timing

We have the motor locked out at 37 degrees.

Have not played with the timing much. If we want to retard, we can do it via the MSD boxes (like when we decide to spray the motor).

Bruce

Any day drag racing is a GOOD day.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 08:53 AM
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Bruce, you need to post some pics of your car. That thing is SWEET! Bruce
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Pony Photos



Here you go.

Car used to have a lot of vendor stickers on it but when we had it painted we (my sons and everybody on the 460 site) said NO stickers.

Bruce

Any day drag racing is a GOOD day.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Engine Bay Photo

Picture of the engine bay with new plumbing.


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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 02:20 PM
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personally 116 octane on a motor less than 14:1 is wasting money and power even with nitrous. You could easily run that motor on 110 without the nitrous (actually at your comp ratio and alum heads you could get away with 100LL but you would want ot be careful with the tune) and even with the nitrous on a 12.75:1 engine 112 octane should be plenty (unless you have other problems)
Also I am betting your giving up some power with your timing that high too.

Will it hurt anything? only your power and times but it's your car.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-27-2007, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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116 is TOO much

Talked to the Torco Fuel representative at World Street Nationals in Orlando today.

Told me that with a CR of 12.75 to 1 I should be using 112. When and if we decide to spray it go up to 116.

Thanks for all your inputs.

Bruce

Any day drag racing is a GOOD day.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-27-2007, 03:22 PM
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race fuel, regardless of octane rating burns faster than regular pump fuel. Reason being, race engines run at a much higher rpm and require a faster burning fuel to burn completely in the amount of time available at those rpms. But because of the higher compression ratios in the above mentioned engines, the octane needs to be higher so that the spark lights it off rather than the compression. Go to this site for more info.
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_fuels.html#

Click on the four properties for a little more technical information.

Bumblebee tuna...
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparman
Click on the four properties for a little more technical information.
direct link: http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_fuelprop.html

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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What is the right fuel?

Danny,

Thanks for the web site.

I got this car to spend time with my two sons and have some fun at the track. BOY, does this stuff get complicated! The car also has a complete 300 shot NOS system with purge, Edelbrock computer/controller, and a F.A.S.T. system to ensure we don't get too lean.

Car runs 9.50s all day long on motor so we may just leave the NOS in the bottle so we don't have to pay $$$ for a new motor?

Bruce
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Any day drag racing is a GOOD day.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 07:15 AM
 
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Sorry Pappa Bear but the nitrous WILL NOT stay in the bottle!! You can run the car on motor all day long if you want but I want some 8 second time slips. I will show you how to do it. After some more seat time, you'll want 8's too!!! Trust me.

Your Loving Son,

Keith Sherry


P.S. What would the Night Of Fire be with no FIRES?
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 02:57 PM
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what good is nitrous if you don't get a few "laughs" out of it?

Bumblebee tuna...
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-01-2007, 11:20 AM
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Hello Bsherry I am on Moparts.com also. A guy there sent me a link to this technology website.

There they were testing a 434 Small Block Chevy on E-85 it had a CR of 13.9:1 and was using a 300 HP hit of N2O. Off the "Juice" they were making 771 HP and on they were making 1132.

E-85 is 105 octane.

Thought this would help.

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