MSD rotor phasing??? - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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MSD rotor phasing???

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I haven,t ran my pipe rack in a few years and one of the hardest things is starting it. It want to kick back while it cranking over. Now what I have is a MSD 8580 dist and a 7al3 box. Ting is set at a total of 36 degrees @ 2500 rpm's. I dont have a clue what it is at idle. I tried the 15-20 degree retard that is built in the 7al3 box and had no luck. So could it be a rotor phasing problem MSD's web site is some what informitive but does not discuss how to adjust the mag plate in side.??

Ace
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 12:31 AM
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 01:00 AM
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Hook up a kill switch to you MSD box, this is seperate from the one that turns it on, look on the MSD site it tells how to do it but basically you go from the terminal that you would hook if you were running points, to a switch to ground. Then with the ignition switch on, leave that switch in the kill position, get the motor cranking over a couple times and flip that switch, mine starts real easy that way. heck even with a stock starter after I broke my high dollar gear drive last year I was able to easily start my 13.4:1 528 with the timing locked at 32 degrees to get through the final part of the year.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 08:27 AM
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Have you checked the rotor phasing with a timing light using an old dist cap with a hole cut in it? I would check that first before moving on to possibly trying to move the magnetic picup.

I DO NOT like the built in start retards on the 7AL3's. They give lot's of kickback problems. Reason: the start retard is activated by +12V tied into the switch when you hit the starter. You spin the engine over and if it doesn't fire on the first couple of revolutions you release the starter switch. When you release the starter switch the start retard goes away instantly and gives you full timing while the motor is still turning for a fraction of a second. Instant kickback if the rotor is phasing is not perfect.

MSD has an add on box #8994 Starter Saver. I've used it and it works MUCH better. It is not tied into the starter. Anytime the engine is below 500 rpm it is active and the timing is retarded regardless of what the starter is doing. When it hit's 800 rpm it deactivates, then activates again if rpm drops under 500. The Starter Saver works great with all the analog MSD boxes. The built in retard on the Digital boxes works the same way.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 08:54 AM
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Years back when I had the std MSD billet with the advance locked out it would kick back, I added the start retard like Dave mentioned but it was even worse. I checked the dist phase and was shocked how far it was off. I ended up removing the cap adapter and sloting the mounting holes to get the phase right. It never kicked back again, no starting with the ign off and hitting the switch crap. Our 306 is locked in at 45* with the dist phased properly, no start retard, just turn onign and bump the start button and it lights right off.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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OK
my starter button is seprate from the ignition. Normaly I would get the motor spinning over than flip the ignition switch and it would light off. It would really be bad when the motor is cold or first started for the day but after that i would get her cranking the flip the switch and not hit the gas and it worked 90% of the time. I haven't raced in 3 years and went up to the track to get the chassis certified and what a pain in the ***. now MSD say's that the start retard only works under 1300 rpm's then above that it will return to normal. so how do you phase the rotor for the 8580 dist? there no mention of this in the directions.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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OK looked around MSD web site and the say that rotor phasing is only for system with CRANK TRIGGER systems and not magnetic sytem like what I'm using on the 8580 dist.?????

Ace :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:18 AM
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Its a given with a CT, but you need to check it.........mine was way off.

The start retard made it even worse as when it goes to normal the timing is delayed a bit. Bottom line, get an old cap cut a hole in it and check the phase, no matter what MSD says.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:50 AM
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Here is a picture of the hole in the dizzy for phasing the rotor that Jon made. I bought the dizzy from him last year!!

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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OK that is easy enough I have a spare dist that is brand new and I can rob the cap off of that. So cut a hole out at the number one and mark the rotor with some kind of WHITE paint and then check how close it is to the number one position when Idling using a timing light. I'm going to guess that it will be off some because it has something like 15 * timing @ Idle and the the rest @ 2500. So IF it's way off how would I go about adjusting it?

ACE
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstrokeace
OK
my starter button is seprate from the ignition. Normaly I would get the motor spinning over than flip the ignition switch and it would light off. It would really be bad when the motor is cold or first started for the day but after that i would get her cranking the flip the switch and not hit the gas and it worked 90% of the time.
I used to do it with turning the ignition switch power on too, but found that if you do the kill switch like i listed it works 100% better for some reason (partially because the entire ignition system is already electrified ready to go just isn't getting the signal from the mag pickup until you remove the ground to the points pickup on the box (if the box see's ground on the points pickup terminal it ignores the magnetic pickup totally until that ground goes away, which is why it works for this, and also makes a nice handy easy to do kill switch for emergancy purposes. dual purpose, makes starting easier and nice safety feature to have a kill switch)
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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KILL SWITCH
If your racing application requires an ignition kill switch (dead man's switch) it is easy to
incorporate into the ignition's trigger input wire. When the trigger input terminal is grounded,
the ignition is killed. A Single-Pole, Single Throw Switch is required (MSD PN 8806).
Points: Connect one side of the switch to ground and the other side to the Points terminal of
7AL-3 (Figure 14).
Mag Pickup: Connect one side of the switch to ground and the other side to the Mag+
terminal of 7AL-3 (Figure 15).
Figure 14 Connecting a Kill Switch to Points. Figure 15 Connecting the Kill Switch to the Mag+.

http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/7%20series/7230_7al3.pdf


I'll try anything

Ace
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