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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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More about Ford returning to Pro Stock...

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...9013867e004610 Seems Darin has a head that is going to be Pro Stock specific??

Anyways.. a few posts talk about Kasse's New Hemi stuff. If BOTH of these heads got approved things could get real interesting.

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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 02:03 PM
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It seems Darin Morgan HASN'T got any head at the moment, (what are you reading anyway), and it will probably take over a year to design one; then more time to test it and get a part number.

The IHRA hemi style head is WAY to big for a 500 inch engine.

Take that "crack" pipe and throw it as far as you can... Bull S__T rumors like this is how "urban legends" get started.

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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 02:12 PM
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A friend of mine has a buddy who said he was told inside information by a person who heard about ... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :!:

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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcomprandy
A friend of mine has a buddy who said he was told inside information by a person who heard about ... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :!:
My friend's buddy says your buddy is full of $%& and doesn't have a clue what is going to happen :shock: ops: :cry:

G. Allen Pearson
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 03:09 PM
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Here's what Mr. Morgan himself had to say.

"Since the word is out, I thought I should comment so the rumors don't get totally out of hand and cuase problems. First off, FORD IS NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY ON THIS DEAL!. Its all privately funded from other entities who will remain anonymous at least until they deem it necessary to make them self's known. The funds are there, the thing is a GO and progress is being made. Anything this complex takes a team of individuals and companies to pull off not to mention a lot of time to complete. Its not going to happen over night and its not going to happen in a year. It might take a year and half before everything is completed.


P.S. Please, everyone just hold up on the rumors and let this thing happen. The announcements will be forth coming and the details will trickle out as the powers that be deem necessary, but not until. No, I cant comment any further on this other than what I have already stated so please don't post asking for more info because I cant give it."

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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcomprandy
The IHRA hemi style head is WAY to big for a 500 inch engine.
Randy, you are absolutely correct. That is why Carroll Carter has spent a bunch of time & money reworking the 4.9" BS Roberts design hemi head for NHRA Pro Stock. The last time I talked to him, he had $42,000 tied up in R&D on one pair of bare heads (no valves or rockers). But I guess it is the same old politics at Ford as everywhere. If you don't have the right person pushing your product to the higher ups then you get nowhere. It's a crying shame that there is a head available if Ford would just write a letter to NHRA sayinging it's legal.

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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 04:39 PM
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B-441

There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,
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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 05:34 PM
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Re: B-441

well if they are barely making 1170 horse with em, whats the incentive to use em?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Blair
There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,

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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 05:38 PM
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Re: B-441

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4speed390
well if they are barely making 1170 horse with em, whats the incentive to use em?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Blair
There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 05:52 PM
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Re: B-441

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4speed390
well if they are barely making 1170 horse with em, whats the incentive to use em?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Blair
There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,
1170 HP was in 1996. The 455 made 2.53 HP/CI. Current NHRA hitter engines are about 2.75 HP/CI. IHRA Hemi's are at 2.15 HP/CI. Some Pro engine builders feel the B-441 can get the job done. 600 CFM with a proper CSA for a 500" is doable.

Gary,
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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 06:17 PM
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well either way I would love to seem em perform and ford in pro stock. so we shall see.

thanks for the info Gary.

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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 06:27 PM
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NHRA Pro-Stock like the NASCAR deal has become a RPM fest. Piston wt. , top ring placement and valve train design may be an issue for the hemi style heads in the 10,000 RPM + world .

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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lem Evans
NHRA Pro-Stock like the NASCAR deal has become a RPM fest. Piston wt. , top ring placement and valve train design may be an issue for the hemi style heads in the 10,000 RPM + world .
Lem makes an excellent point. 500" engines need big rpm, to make the power needed today. I know what the pistons in our 815" hemi weighed, and they weren't light, and we only spun it to the upper 7000's. With the length of the exhaust rockers on the hemi, valvetrain harmonics and weight come into play also. Not as easy as throwing together a good flowing set of heads and making power.

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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-25-2008, 06:57 PM
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can't see it happenin to political, and not enough R&D


But Gary you can do it with one of your CJ Iron headed motors can't you with all the HP you say you can build with them.......... how are those slicks doing rotting on your old prostocker???


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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 04:35 AM
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Political

Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar1969
can't see it happenin to political, and not enough R&D


But Gary you can do it with one of your CJ Iron headed motors can't you with all the HP you say you can build with them.......... how are those slicks doing rotting on your old prostocker???


cough cough: Warren Johnston


Randy
Randy,

Political is correct. R & D is correct. My old Glidden car is doing fine. Thanks for asking. :lol:

How is that fine back half piece doing? :lol:

Gary,

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