O/T: Concrete step question....... - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-17-2009, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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O/T: Concrete step question.......

Can a layer of new concrete be added (and stick) to the front edge of an existing concrete step? The new layer is needed to lengthen the step & also correct the wrong angle the leading edge of the step was framed/poured at.

Would something other than concrete be better to use, like mortar, grout, etc, etc. Whatever the new material is it needs to be as "tile friendly" as concrete is.

Thanks for any opinions.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-17-2009, 08:47 PM
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Yes you can pour cement to exsisting concrete, and aslong as there is not to much weight going to be on it it should stick

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-17-2009, 10:39 PM
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When I see it added, they drill into the existing pad and use more rebar to tie it together.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-17-2009, 11:38 PM
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Yup

Like Duane said, add some rebar stubs sticking out from the existing to the new.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-17-2009, 11:44 PM
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If its just a step, you can just drill the holes. They also make a bonder. Its a liquid that you poor on or mix in. When I did mine, I used sand mix. If I had it to do again, I would have used light weight concrete.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-18-2009, 06:13 AM
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Like the rest have stated the rebar is a good Idea, and the sticking agent, I have used it before at work, It was called Cemabond I bielive, just make sure when you order cement that You order it with fine pebles

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-18-2009, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.I.L.L.I.G.A.S. View Post
Can a layer of new concrete be added (and stick) to the front edge of an existing concrete step? The new layer is needed to lengthen the step & also correct the wrong angle the leading edge of the step was framed/poured at.

Would something other than concrete be better to use, like mortar, grout, etc, etc. Whatever the new material is it needs to be as "tile friendly" as concrete is.

Thanks for any opinions.
Dave,
First off when I need chassis or suspension help I always look forward to your replies. Hopefully I can help you this time.

A "new layer" or cap can be added to almost any concrete step when done properly. First there is bonding agent called ThoroughBond, you dilute this with water and use a brush and paint the soultion on the roughened concrete. I would suggest using a bush hammer and rough up the top of the original concrete. I would take it that you are looking for a thincap of an 1/2" on the top and maybe 1" to 1 1/2" on the front depending on how you want to correct the riser on the steps. Instead of rebar, I would use wire mesh for concrete slabs and sidewalks or wire lath if it is available . Also I would dowel the steps with some simple tapcon screws, this is an easy way to insure the conrete will be mechanically bonded as well as chemically bonded. I would use Non-shrink grout with an admix of Acryl 60, there is no aggregate in the grout mix but it is very durable and a pretty fast setting mix therefore I would definatley use the wire lath with the grout mix. If you are capping say 1" or so on the tread and riser then simple bagged Sacrete with a 4000lb or higher tensile strength along with the admix of Acryl 60.

Whatever you use for a form make sure you coat it with diesel fuel to prevent it from sticking or pulling the face off of your newly poured concrete. Also when painting the existing concrete with thoroughbond, follow the instructions on the bottle. I think you have 48hours after you paint the soulution on before you have to recoat if the cementous product is not installed over it.

Hope this helps,
Travis
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-18-2009, 10:57 AM
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Travis

Travis, never thought about using this screws instead of rebar. For such a small cap it makes more sense to use the screws and a lot easier also.
How do they get a nice finish on a step when it covered by a form? Do they take something like a vibrating sander against the vertical form to get the cream to the surface or do they pull the form off after a certain time and trowel?

Lets not bring up stamping concrete or acid staining. I would on here for hours yaking back n forth.



Thanks

Tom

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-18-2009, 12:05 PM
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Any good Marine grade Epoxy and portlant cement mix, and trowel it on.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-18-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 747JETMECH View Post
Travis, never thought about using this screws instead of rebar. For such a small cap it makes more sense to use the screws and a lot easier also.
How do they get a nice finish on a step when it covered by a form? Do they take something like a vibrating sander against the vertical form to get the cream to the surface or do they pull the form off after a certain time and trowel?

Lets not bring up stamping concrete or acid staining. I would on here for hours yaking back n forth.



Thanks

Tom
On a set of steps you only need to from the risers unless the sides are exposed, then the sides and riser is formed. Tapping on the form with a hammer is usually enough to get the surface finishable. If you are going to strip the forms and rub them with a steel trowel after it starts to harden, then steps need to be taken to insure the forms will strip easily in a timely manner so once it starts to harden you can strip and rub as necessary with out fighting the forms off. If you were to use grout, I don't think that the set up time is long enough to strip them before they start to harden, hence a good coat of diesel fuel to keep the forms from sticking to the concrete product. A 1" coverage of non-shrink grout would typically harden in about 20-30 minutes with the Acryl 60 add mix. Sacrete on the other hand has aggregrate and would require tapping the form to get the cream to rise, stripping and rubbing before the set up time to get the cream rubeed in and all over to be presentable. You would have approximatley 1 1/2 to 2 Hrs before the stripping process would need to be done. In Daves case it sounds like he is going to cover his steps with some sort of tile, so the finish would not be to as much of an importance being that there would most likely be a thinset grout used to adhere the tile and take up the imperfections.

Travis
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-18-2009, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help guys.

This is an ongoing remodeling project at my parents house. One project was to install a new glass & Wrought iron front door w/side windows with a raised step entryway (in & outside). Everything was scheduled so that we would rip out the old door/windows/stub walls assembly, a raised entryway would be poured, we would frame out the new side stub walls on the new entryway for the new door assembly , and the new door installed all in a smooth flowing time line.........yea right. Unfortunately the schedule got squeezed. And when we noticed the leading edge of the step (inside the house) wasn't exactly square right after the pour we hoped it wouldn't be really noticeable, but had to push on & build the stub walls quickly because the new door was on the way.


Fast forward to this week where we had completely forgotten about the crooked entry step. We were laying out about 14 boxes of 16 x 16 floor tile for a dry fit to see how it would look........and $hit if the crooked step doesn't stand out like a turd in the punch bowl when the tile pattern/grout line approaches it. If carpet was going to be used you would never notice the angle of the step was off. But tile just magnifies the problem & points a giant flashing neon pink & green arrow at it. So we need to do something & adding material to the front edge of the step sounds like the easiest way to correct/square the angle side-to-side.

Using a bunch of concrete screws as anchors & some mesh/screen for the patch material to flow around (& grab on to) does sound like a great idea. Never heard about concrete bonding agents, learn something new every day.

Thanks again guys.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.S. Dave::
460 street '66 Ranchero.......................finished someday.
460 race '70 Maverick..........................finished someday.
All 'glass Top Sportsman '69 Mustang......ummm, check back when I win big playing the Texas Lotto, or online poker.
My youtube page. Some ancient & newer local race video.

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