Electricians?? Got a 220v question. - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-27-2009, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Electricians?? Got a 220v question.

I have a conventional home oven I plan on using in the garage for a powder coat oven. My water heater is in the garage and has 220v service. The box is mounted outside the drywall in the garage and has flexible conduit from the box to the water heater. 30 amp dedicated breaker in the fuse panel.

Can I tap into the water heater supply wiring for the oven and install a plug coming from that box? OR does the oven need a dedicated service as well?

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-27-2009, 08:02 PM
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It needs it's on curcuit if you wired it that way when the water heater came on it would trow throw breaker when the oven was on plus any 220v needs it's on breaker if it was me run a new curcuit and breaker
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-27-2009, 09:24 PM
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You would be best off to do this....

Go get an independant breaker box.... run 220v from the main fuse panal out to it.... then have it on it's own kill switch right beside the oven, so that you can always be sure it is off when you are through. You could rob the same outlet as the hotwater heater, but you could never use them at the same time without risking overload on that circuit.

You should be able to do that for about $65.00 and have a nice breaker box with it's own outlet right there!

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-27-2009, 11:03 PM
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Your oven needs 3C#8 guage and a 40 amp breaker. IE/ you need a neutral conductor for 110V to run your controls on an oven. Or most of them anyway.

the HWT is too small, and runs strictly a 220v circuit, no neutral conductor for 110v.

ANY large load should always be on a dedicated circuit.

You do not need a disconnect so long as your Oven has a plug on it, that is your means of disconnect.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-28-2009, 01:07 AM
 
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X2 on what diggindeeper said! some ovens may drawl more amperage and require #6 gauge wire and a 2 pole 50 amp breaker.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 11:35 PM
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220 Volt

Ahhh the 220 volt questions.......
You electron masters please educate me.

It took me awhile to get a handle on how this works so if I am wrong, please speak up.
My 220 volt air compresser - red and black are hot. White takes place of ground. Is it smart to run the neutral wire from the box back to the compressor? Could this energize the comressor in some way? I actually updated my plug receipt with a 4 blade style. I just used the additional ground wire to the outside of the compressor.
The idea is to allow electricity a path back to ground before going thru you, right. So I don't see how this would hurt.

This is how 220 was explained to me. Each hot wire runs on its own wave. As one wave is pushing electricity the other hot wire is pulling it. This is why the neutral is not required except for safety.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 02:56 AM
 
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747.... true! in a lot of cases we just cap the white wire off in the box and use the bare or green wire for the ground. this is the way my air compressor has been wired for 10 years. if by chance the piece of equipment you are hooking up needs the white(neutral) wire for controls, hook it up. (example... high end clothes dryer in the house... 4 wire hook up...back in the day they just had two hots and a ground. in the garage... my Hobart welder the same way...) if not then its not needed.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 09:35 AM
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Thanks Bolt

Thanks TBolt

I wish I had trained to be a electrician instead of what I am doing now. I really find it interesting stuff.

On a funny note.....I always like to laugh at my mistakes so I will share this one with you. One day I was replacing my lawn sprinkler electric valves. I figured its low voltage and I was too lazy to get up and unplug it. So I started to remove the wires while kneeling in wet grass.My wife was standing next to me watching and I was teasing her acting like I was getting shocked.......... All of a sudden I got a little bite of power and I farted! She laughed so hard she started crying.


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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 747JETMECH View Post
Ahhh the 220 volt questions.......
You electron masters please educate me.

It took me awhile to get a handle on how this works so if I am wrong, please speak up.
My 220 volt air compresser - red and black are hot. White takes place of ground. Is it smart to run the neutral wire from the box back to the compressor? Could this energize the comressor in some way? I actually updated my plug receipt with a 4 blade style. I just used the additional ground wire to the outside of the compressor.
The idea is to allow electricity a path back to ground before going thru you, right. So I don't see how this would hurt.

This is how 220 was explained to me. Each hot wire runs on its own wave. As one wave is pushing electricity the other hot wire is pulling it. This is why the neutral is not required except for safety.

Tom
The white (neutral) wire IS a grounded conductor anyway, once you get back to your service entrance point they are mechanically bonded, HOWEVER> dont use the neutral (white) wire in place of the bonding (green or bare) conductor. YOu can cause fault currents to transfer to other equipment through the neutral conductor. you want them to go on a dedicated path to ground which is the bonding conductors job. Bonds the equipment to ground. It is A very small risk but it is the code (here anyway, i'm sure it is there as well) to separate the neutral conductors path to ground from the Bonding conductors path to ground. IF your said equipment is only 220 then you can cap, or cut off the White.

220 run on sine waves 180 degrees apart from each other. SO when one is on the positive cycle, the other is on the negative cycle. I wouldnt explain it as one cycle pushing and one pulling. Voltage itself IS the "push"

The neutral is NOT for safety, it is for your referance for 110volts, and to pick up the unbalanced load in a 3 wire circuit.
the bonding conductor, or ground as most people call it is the safety.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 09:35 AM
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Electricity

I have another question. How can 2 paths of electricity ( 220v ) traveling from the same singe wire source ( Pole ) make a sin wave exactly 180 degs apart? Why doesn't it make one big wave? They come from the same single wire.
Is the number of cycles in a minute called herts?? Hertz??

Thanks

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 747JETMECH View Post
I have another question. How can 2 paths of electricity ( 220v ) traveling from the same singe wire source ( Pole ) make a sin wave exactly 180 degs apart? Why doesn't it make one big wave? They come from the same single wire.
Is the number of cycles in a minute called herts?? Hertz??

Thanks
you need 2 hots (in north america anyway) to make 220v.
you're getting 220v between phases, IE comparing to each other because they are 180 apart. If you referance each hot to ground you get 110. While phase A is on the +cycle it peaks at ~155volts, Phase B is on the -cycle and peaks at ~155 in the negative cycle. When they continue on through their cycle they technically both will see 0 volts. If your adding up in your head you're realizing 155 + 155 does not equal 220, and either does 0 + 0. correct. the 220 comes from Taking the Root Mean Square (RMS) voltage of the peaks. So the easiest way to figure it out is Peak Voltage x 0.707. This is ONLY the case in an AC circuit. Capacitors, Diodes, and other solid state devices change that.
You are close about the Hertz. its Cycles per second though.

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