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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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how much hp one pump gas

ok guys a guy i talked to yesterday told me that my blower set up that i have for sale wouldnt be big enough for his 547 my blower is a dyers 671 big rotor with the big case. this guy started arguing with me about pump gas i told him on a motor 93 octane that the most boost he could run would be 1:1 ratio at 6pounds to be safe then he came back and sad some guys in up state new york had a car that put down 2700hp to the rear wheels with a blower set up on pump gas. i told him i didn't believe him if i am wrong i will man up and say i was sorry for not believing him i asked him if he knew what detonation was he couldn't tell me.and he said my blower wouldnt be big enough for his 8 sec 1/4 street car this blower was on a 557 and it made 1250 hp @ +25% but i guess that was on c16 race fuel. i need in put on this. is there some one makeing 2700hp with a blower on pump gas?????
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 11:36 PM
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Talking what pump gas?

E85 would do real good, i dont think 2700 hp you want to chance hurting a motor that can handle 2700hp-expensive. People say i am nuts running 12 to one on 93, cylinder pressure from 2700 hp would be three times mine i would think. Spraying alcohol or water injection is a big crutch. Sill sounds like a BOMB
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 11:55 PM
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if theres a guy making 2700 hp on pump gas, I'd love to meet him and do the same for me . That's one of those whats your definition of pump gas? I would pay top dollar for a 2700hp pump gas motor. But first you have to find the lepraucon at the end of the rainbow then he will take you on a unicorn ride to peter Pans house where they keep the top secret dyno video and build specs. after that they can give you the tooth fairy's direct line to Frankinstein at your local NAPA where they have all the parts stocked on the shelf ready as a EZ kit to fit any SBC for $99.95

Thats my best guess at a 2700hp pump gas motor
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fe50stang View Post
if theres a guy making 2700 hp on pump gas, I'd love to meet him and do the same for me . That's one of those whats your definition of pump gas? I would pay top dollar for a 2700hp pump gas motor. But first you have to find the lepraucon at the end of the rainbow then he will take you on a unicorn ride to peter Pans house where they keep the top secret dyno video and build specs. after that they can give you the tooth fairy's direct line to Frankinstein at your local NAPA where they have all the parts stocked on the shelf ready as a EZ kit to fit any SBC for $99.95

Thats my best guess at a 2700hp pump gas motor
Now thats a Good one. But sounds like it would be a fun trip
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 07:15 AM
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I think that there is a guy here on the forum with a Falcon that has a turbocharged 632 making around 1500 horsepower on 93 octane street gas.

I think that guy in your story is confusing blown gas and blown alcohol which are two different worlds of possibility.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic --Arthur C. Clarke

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cvarnes View Post
ok guys a guy i talked to yesterday told me that my blower set up that i have for sale wouldnt be big enough for his 547 my blower is a dyers 671 big rotor with the big case. this guy started arguing with me about pump gas i told him on a motor 93 octane that the most boost he could run would be 1:1 ratio at 6pounds to be safe then he came back and sad some guys in up state new york had a car that put down 2700hp to the rear wheels with a blower set up on pump gas. i told him i didn't believe him if i am wrong i will man up and say i was sorry for not believing him i asked him if he knew what detonation was he couldn't tell me.and he said my blower wouldnt be big enough for his 8 sec 1/4 street car this blower was on a 557 and it made 1250 hp @ +25% but i guess that was on c16 race fuel. i need in put on this. is there some one makeing 2700hp with a blower on pump gas?????
WTF . where did those numbers come from ? YES it was me on the phone . tell the story as it was said . you stated the blower made 6psi on a SBC . at 1 to 1 drive . I asked local users/racers if that blower was enough for what I want -said NO. They said - better to go with a larger blower that have to spin one up . Now for the BS hp numbers you put down -- I said a forum member from this area won the pump gas HP dyno race and was around 1800 HP at the rear wheels . That was Dan T with his Falcon and could be looked up to get the number . You started arguing by saying it could'nt be done . sorry it was done . you just wanted to dump off your blower to me . see you did find a buyer , will see how it serves the new owner . FORGOT- detonation , sorry to tell you this I know what it is .. Whats with ? " this blower was on a 557 and it made1250 hp @ +25% but i guess that was on c16race fuel" YOU GUESS ?

Last edited by 2slow; 11-03-2010 at 08:30 AM.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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2700hp on pump gas

I have asked 2slow to please post this info for us.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 08:50 AM
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I have asked 2slow to please post this info for us.
you should read the reply posts .
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 08:59 AM
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DantheFordMan:

https://www.460ford.com/forum/showthr...=danthefordman

Have a good day!
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 04:02 PM
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Theres a twin turbo bbf on here making 1400hp on pump gas:
http://www.john-sleath.com/engine%20combo.htm
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodder View Post
Theres a twin turbo bbf on here making 1400hp on pump gas:
http://www.john-sleath.com/engine%20combo.htm
From above website:

To help emphasize, I highlighted a few words .

Quote:
Jon's engine made 1400hp and 1350ft/lb with only 22psi of boost,the cam spec on this are .580 lift 242 and 252 @ .050 lift and 114lobe centre, its a flat tappet hydraulic cam,it has A460 heads, Scat steel crank,Howard billet rods all making 501ci,as I was taking the engine of the dyno I thought it would be a good idea to see what it made without the turbo's fitted, as you can see from the graph below it made 507hp so that means the turbo's are worth 900hp
That HP # was at 6,200 RPM!!!





Have a good day!
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2003 F150 Supercrew
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1996 Ford Mustang
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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HP ON PUMP GAS

Hear is my question these motors are making big numbers. But to say it is a pump gas motor is the question?? To me a pump gas motor can run in the car every day on the same tune that the car put down those numbers and drive to the track on 93 octane on the same tune no de tune .
(on's engine made 1400hp and 1350ft/lb with only 22psi of boost,the cam spec on this are .580 lift 242 and 252 @ .050 lift and 114lobe centre, its a flat tappet hydraulic cam,it has A460 heads, Scat steel crank,Howard billet rods all making 501ci,as I was taking the engine of the dyno I thought it would be a good idea to see what it made without the turbo's fitted, as you can see from the graph below it made 507hp so that means the turbo's are worth 900hp)

OK this motor was run balls to the wall on the dyno on the pump gas to get that
Number @ 22 psi . Now @ 22 psi the motor isnít detonating ?????? But to say to keep the motor drivable the motor would have to be detuned in order to drive ON THE STREET AND NOT TO GRENADE THE MOTOR WITH THE 93 OCTANE AS A DAILY DRIVER. SO YES THE MOTOR MADE THE NUMBERS ON THE DYNO
BUT THEORETICALLY THE MOTOR WOULD NOT SURVIVE AS A STREET MOTOR WITH 22 PSI OF BOOST.

MY SB2 358 CI SMALL BLOCK CHEVY WAS 14:5:1 COMPRESSION IT WOULD DIESEL ON 93 BUT WITH W.O.T IT WOULD RUN BALLS TO THE WALL ON 93
BUT FOR HOW LONG??? I KNOW 22PSI IS WAY MORE THAN 14:5:1.

AND 2 YOU 2 SLOW I WASNíT TRYING TO THROW THE BLOWER OFF ON YOU.I TOLD YOU I COULD CARE LESS WHETHER WE TRADED OR NOT.AND THIS HAS BEEN ONE GOOD DISCUSSION .
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 10:09 PM
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I have no stake in this but want to learn if possible. I called BDS and The Blower Shop about putting a supercharger on a 466 and was told by both of them that a 6:71 was too small for that many cubes and would definitely not be able to run on pump-gas as the smaller supercharger would create too much intake heat trying to feed that many cubes and 8:71 would be the minumum for such an application. It was stated that a 6:71 was pretty much intended for ~440ci and less.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvarnes View Post
Hear is my question these motors are making big numbers. But to say it is a pump gas motor is the question?? To me a pump gas motor can run in the car every day on the same tune that the car put down those numbers and drive to the track on 93 octane on the same tune no de tune . OK this motor was run balls to the wall on the dyno on the pump gas to get that Number @ 22 psi .
Isn't that the purpose of a dyno -- balls-to-the-wall? Just because it was run hard doesn't mean the tune is unsafe for the street. If he was looking for bragging rights, I think he could have picked a much larger camshaft and spun it to higher RPMs and picked up plenty of HP. IMHO, that engine build made several trade-offs in an effort to keep streetability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvarnes View Post
Now @ 22 psi the motor isnít detonating ??????
I've personally run 30 psig on a daily driven pump gas motor. I blew a couple $10 head gaskets getting to that point, but it lived happily once I got the tune right. I didn't have the luxury of a dyno. Boost is simply a measure of restriction and doesn't really say too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvarnes View Post
But to say to keep the motor drivable the motor would have to be detuned in order to drive ON THE STREET AND NOT TO GRENADE THE MOTOR WITH THE 93 OCTANE AS A DAILY DRIVER. SO YES THE MOTOR MADE THE NUMBERS ON THE DYNO
BUT THEORETICALLY THE MOTOR WOULD NOT SURVIVE AS A STREET MOTOR WITH 22 PSI OF BOOST.
I don't think we have enough information to definitively state this. Did it say the motor was on a race tune vs. street tune? Did it say he detuned it to run on the street? High boost #'s at high'er' RPMs can be completely safe. If the turbo is properly chosen for its intended usage, it'll be in its efficiency sweet spot and keep the IATs low'er'.

Basically, they took a 501 cid BBF, put good parts in it, and made 507 HP. I think most people on this board would overwelmingly agree that it is a very mild engine with low RPMs and mild camshaft specs. So, just because they bolted a couple turbochargers on it...now it's some extreme, race-only engine??? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvarnes View Post
MY SB2 358 CI SMALL BLOCK CHEVY WAS 14:5:1 COMPRESSION IT WOULD DIESEL ON 93 BUT WITH W.O.T IT WOULD RUN BALLS TO THE WALL ON 93
BUT FOR HOW LONG??? I KNOW 22PSI IS WAY MORE THAN 14:5:1.
I disagree. Your 14.5:1 CR is still 14.5:1 when idling at the stop light. A turbo engine isn't seeing boost when you idle or at lower RPMs. Therefore, that engine is more likely seeing its 8.5 (whatever it is) CR. Like boost, static compression ratios are only a small bit of information. Also, camshaft specs will greatly affect both engine combos and low speed drivability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvarnes View Post
THIS HAS BEEN ONE GOOD DISCUSSION .
I agree .

I'm building a turbocharged 547 BBF. I anticipate my engine HP will be limited by the size of the turbocharger (only a 98 mm), but I still expect 1,200'ish HP. I strongly believe I could 'easily' build 1,500+ HP with a camshaft and turbo change. My engine will have A/C, P/S, ect. My wife will drive it on road trips without troubles and my 4.5 month old daughter will ride comfortably in the back seat. I won't tell you I'm saving $$$ with my engine build. I expect my total build cost will be higher than a race-only build with similar HP. That's a trade-off I'm knowingly making, though.

Big HP doesn't require a trade-off in streetability. Think of all the Mustang guys with 4.6 liter engines surpassing the 1,000 hp mark with bolt on parts. Now, if you almost double the engine size, I don't think 1,500+ is too far out of line.

Yes, it's a fun conversation. I have strong opinions and I believe that many people have not yet realized the advantages of forced induction.

Have a good day!
Michael

2003 F150 Supercrew
BBF
Turbo

1996 Ford Mustang
2.3t w/ HE351VE turbo
12.10 @ 114 mph
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-04-2010, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by 96Mustang460cid View Post
Isn't that the purpose of a dyno -- balls-to-the-wall? Just because it was run hard doesn't mean the tune is unsafe for the street. If he was looking for bragging rights, I think he could have picked a much larger camshaft and spun it to higher RPMs and picked up plenty of HP. IMHO, that engine build made several trade-offs in an effort to keep streetability.



I've personally run 30 psig on a daily driven pump gas motor. I blew a couple $10 head gaskets getting to that point, but it lived happily once I got the tune right. I didn't have the luxury of a dyno. Boost is simply a measure of restriction and doesn't really say too much.



I don't think we have enough information to definitively state this. Did it say the motor was on a race tune vs. street tune? Did it say he detuned it to run on the street? High boost #'s at high'er' RPMs can be completely safe. If the turbo is properly chosen for its intended usage, it'll be in its efficiency sweet spot and keep the IATs low'er'.

Basically, they took a 501 cid BBF, put good parts in it, and made 507 HP. I think most people on this board would overwelmingly agree that it is a very mild engine with low RPMs and mild camshaft specs. So, just because they bolted a couple turbochargers on it...now it's some extreme, race-only engine??? Doesn't make much sense to me.



I disagree. Your 14.5:1 CR is still 14.5:1 when idling at the stop light. A turbo engine isn't seeing boost when you idle or at lower RPMs. Therefore, that engine is more likely seeing its 8.5 (whatever it is) CR. Like boost, static compression ratios are only a small bit of information. Also, camshaft specs will greatly affect both engine combos and low speed drivability.



I agree .

I'm building a turbocharged 547 BBF. I anticipate my engine HP will be limited by the size of the turbocharger (only a 98 mm), but I still expect 1,200'ish HP. I strongly believe I could 'easily' build 1,500+ HP with a camshaft and turbo change. My engine will have A/C, P/S, ect. My wife will drive it on road trips without troubles and my 4.5 month old daughter will ride comfortably in the back seat. I won't tell you I'm saving $$$ with my engine build. I expect my total build cost will be higher than a race-only build with similar HP. That's a trade-off I'm knowingly making, though.

Big HP doesn't require a trade-off in streetability. Think of all the Mustang guys with 4.6 liter engines surpassing the 1,000 hp mark with bolt on parts. Now, if you almost double the engine size, I don't think 1,500+ is too far out of line.

Yes, it's a fun conversation. I have strong opinions and I believe that many people have not yet realized the advantages of forced induction.

Have a good day!
Michael
your are 100% right about the motor vs my sb2 but at what point is it safe to say that a 93 octane motor building that much power under boost is not a ticking time bomb yeah mine was 14:1 at idle but at w.o.t it was still 14.1 not say 18.1 @ 22psi just throwing a number out there for the compression @ 22psi the blower set up that i have is a dyers big case big rotor according to dyers with the part number that is on it and i called tech and they said the regular 671 would be to small but the 671 big roto big case is fine on 550 cubes. this why i am with you turbo is the only way to go i have had two turbo cars in the past loved them and i had a svt cobra with the whipple supercharger the turbo mustang i had seem to me pulled hard on the other end but the svt had alot of low end power vs the turbo i just like turbo because its not adding rotating mass to the motor. this discussion is good it is bringing out alot of truth about these set ups that people need to know.
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