Check my work - first 460 build - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Check my work - first 460 build

Hello my name is Cory and I am a horsepower addict
(Forum: "Hi Cory")

I have been lurking around this site for quite some time and it is clear that this a first class community of enthusiast and I hope to eventually contribute something worthwhile.

Until then I would appreciate it if all of you could look over my plans (please critique, question, and suggest) and make sure that I am not leaving anything out or making poor decisions.

Here is where I am at currently:
1.) Engine is for a 78' F150 2WD Long Bed with a C6 and 3.90 rear end (maybe based off of RPM and Tire Size)
2.) I do not know the history of the engine, but I found that it is a D9TE block with DOVE-C heads and a factory intake. It ran strong, but timing was always working its way out and I decided to tear it apart and find out why. It had a double roller timing set on it, but was apparently old as dirt seeing that there was an inch of slack in it.
3.) After reading around here I found that the D0VE heads were a good starting point and I subscribed to the mad porters web-site and started the porting process, which I am still working on. I have already purchased TFS stainless 2.2 and 1.76 valves and after the porting is complete the heads will go to the shop for clean up, new valve seats and 3 angle valve job, and new guides.
4.) In the block I found a couple of the bores have vertical scarring (not deep) so it will go out for clean up, zero deck, and bore/hone (not sure what size yet, I guess the minimum it will take to get cleaned up).

What I am shooting for is an engine around 400fwhp with strong linear pull to about 6k rpm. The C6 is going to eventually be ditched for an OD unit (maybe E4OD)

My combo as planned is this:

Heads:
1.) D0VE ported intake/exhaust per RHP
2.) 2.2/1.76 SS valves
3.) Comp 1.73 full roller rockers with 1.9" studs and raised guide plates.
Block:
1.) Bored over what is required to clean up
2.) Decked to .005
3.) Sealed power 22cc dish builder pistons
4.) Stock rods/crank - rods with ARP studs
Cam:
1.) Comp X4278H Dur: 278/288 Lift: .574/.580
2.) Springs I have no idea
3.) Hardened pushrods
Induction:
1.) Weiand Stealth
2.) 750CFM Quick Fuel Slayer vac. secondaries
Exhaust:
1.) 3/4" primary long tubes to 3" intermediate piping to H-Pipe to 12" glass packs to 3" duals out the back
Ignition:
1.) Summit HEI Drop in conversion distributor.

Sorry for the long post but I am a quality engineer so I live on details.

Am I missing anything? Will this combo work well together? Should it hit the mark I am shooting for? Is there anything I should change? What would this compression work out to be and would it be okay with 93 octane? Thanks a million for any input here.

Last edited by kadoi; 02-19-2016 at 10:18 AM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 08:28 AM
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Hi Cory;


Welcome to this site, and I will start the ball rolling on your critique.

If you deck your heads to a 74cc combustion chamber volume, you will end up with around 9.8 to 1 static compression ratio. However, with the camshaft you quoted, the engine's dynamic compression ratio will be too low and the engine will not build enough cylinder pressure to have a highly responsive engine.


The Weiand Stealth intake manifold has a port CSA that is too large, and it's use in this engine will again lead to an engine that is not as responsive as it should be. Unless the engine will be run at max RPMs the majority of the time. You did not state what the intended use of this vehicle is to be.


As to exhaust pipe size, the generally accepted crossover from 2 1/2" pipe to 3" pipe is around 500 horsepower. By going to a 3" pipe, you will be giving up some torque and probably no gain in HP.



Dual plane intake manifolds like a larger carburetor than a single plane intake manifold, and I would consider a 750 cfm carburetor to be on the small size.

If I was going to buy a distributor, I would buy a Dura Spark with the proper ignition curve in it from "The Mad Porter".



And, if I was going to build an engine that I was going to beat on, I would use forged pistons. Done right, your engine will easily exceed 400 horsepower.


As you said, the results are in the details.

Last edited by DanE; 02-21-2016 at 06:15 AM.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 01:39 PM
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Like already said, ditch those pistons. Also the rods, as far as I'm concerned by the time you buy the ARP bolts and get them reconditioned your well on your way to just buying a new set of better rods. Your going to balance it anyways so now would be a good time. Another thing about getting rods redone, if you don't have your own mics and bore gauge reading in .0001 you have no way of checking that machine shops work on your rods, something to consider. I've seen people take their rods in only to come back worse than they ever were in the first place.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 07:44 PM
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Garage
Your build sounds similar to what I plan to do.

Here's my 2 cents if your looking for a nice throttle response at 400 hp.

Dual plane intake, maybe a little "less" of a cam, long tube headders (2.5 or 2.25 collector), and if not racing a 750 should do fine.

My example:
I've got a 88 vette with a 383 chevy that I put a lunati voodoo (2 to 6.5k strong band), dual plane intake, Holley 600 ((383 x 6500rpm x 80% efficiency) / 3456), and long tube headsets 2.25".

The engine is very streetable, and is almost instantaneous on the peddle response. I plan to build my 429 BBF in this same manner. From what I understand the BBF DOVE heads can easily achieve 400hp with proper porting and complementary cam + timing.

Have you read into 10:1 compression and timing on the BBFs? Try power block tvs budget big block ford build.

Hope any of this helps.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-22-2016, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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The intended use is as a cruiser and weekend toy for the drag strip. Just something to get my young family pulled away from their cell phones and their hands on a project with a little family bonding.

So here go the questions, and thanks for the help so far.

1.) What determines that cross sectional area is to large on a manifold (intake or exhaust)? Is it air velocity or volume of air? And in the case of either of those how would one quantify the air CFM/Speed moving through the engine at a given RPM without actually measuring it while running?

2.) I wish I had more money to throw at this, but right now I am trying to do this by putting the right money in the right places. The engine was holding 55 psi of oil pressure at idle when I tore it down and really sounded smooth. No ticks or thumps. I do have some mic's and bores gauges and will be checking the crank/rod journals. If everything comes out fine I do not plan on having the crank or rods touched at the machine shop. Is this bad?

3.) It was mentioned that the DCR would be too low with the cam choice. From what I have read here optimum DCR is subjective from person to person with no real definable limits. Now I don't know my head from a hole in the ground about the parameters that go into achieving a good DCR. But it seems to me, and correct me if I am wrong, that two engines can be built with completely different parts and operating parameters but manage to hit the same DCR and behave entirely differently. The calculated DCR I am getting with that cam is 8.78:1. From what I have read I was actually worried about that being TOO high. Let me know if that is incorrect and how to calculate the right DCR.

Again thank you for the help.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 04:34 PM
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Cory;
,
1.
Velocity and volume go hand in hand. Experience plays a strong hand here. For your stated engine and vehicle usage, the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold would probably serve you best. And you can increase it's efficiency by blending with a radius the plenum to port interface and port matching the intake to head interface with templates that you make out of poster board. Make one template of the intake and lay it on the head and make one of the head and lay it on the intake. Any metal that protrudes into either template port opening is to removed and blended back. As far as quantifying, do some research.

2.
No, providing you are not changing out the rod bolts. If you are, the consensus is that the rods have to go to the machine shop to have the big end bores trued. And if you do that, as Money-pit said, you might as well buy some Scat "I" beam rods.

3.
DCR is comprised of many factors and is subject to octane requirements. The intake valve closing (IVC) of the cam you chose is 66 degrees after bottom dead center (ABDC) and if you input that figure into Wallace Racing Calculator, and there are others, you will get 7.64 DCR. And I have been instructed to add 15 degrees to the ABDC degrees figure to get a more accurate DCR. If you do that, your DCR will be another number lower. There are people on this site running DCRs of around 9.25 on pump gas, however, they have their ducks in a row.

I would suggest that you contact a vendor on this site and get a custom cam to your stated compression or with that vendor, set up your combination. Also, the valve pockets in the builder pistons do not have enough radial clearance for 2.2 inch valves.

As you said, the results are in the details.

Last edited by DanE; 02-23-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 07:07 AM Thread Starter
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DanE! Thanks much. I would have made a huge mistakes had you not pointed out that the pistons with not clear 2.2 valves. So as long as I re-use the stock bolts I should not have to have the rods reconditioned correct? I'm sure there are many that would say to not do this, but are there legitimate reason to not re-use the rods bolts? Will they live at 6k rpm's? And I think your right DanE, I will just give one of the vendors on here a call. I have been reading about cam science until my eyes bleed and I think I have a grasp on the theory of it all, but application seems to be something a person learns through years of trial and error.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
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And if any of you with experience on these exhaust ports could chime in it would be appreciated. Does this work look okay? I did my best to follow the instructions but I feel like a lot of the information needed to do this correctly you would only get my seeing a properly done port in person.
Attached Images
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Couple more pictures
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 05:03 PM
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I posted my dyno results on my 466 a couple threads below this. I have not gone back to re dyno after fixing my secondaries but it put 330 to the wheels basically on the front barrels. Probably would put 380hp and 480tq to the wheels if/when i go back...

My build is Budget D3 heads, 10-1 compression, 0 decked, Keith Black flat tops (valve relief), stock truck rods and bolts, Performer RPM, Lunati cam 214/224 519/540 (small compared to yours), on a 5spd. Pulls to 6k. Street driven and some track.
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