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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-17-2006, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-17-2006, 07:18 PM
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hate too tell you, but d3s are not closed chamber!

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-17-2006, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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d3

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 09:42 AM
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i dont have too... they are alll the same!

D3VE-AA,A2A etc. For '73 the casting was completely reengineered. The bath tub chamber shape was back but at 97+ cc's. The chamber is slightly larger but the main difference is valve seat depth. The seats are .100" deeper compared to the '72 and older castings. The valves are consequently .100" shorter. They have pedestal rocker arm bosses and use stamped steel 1.73 to 1 ratio rocker arms. The short turn radius in the exhaust port is said to be improved however the cross sectional area between the crest of the short turn and the port roof is reduced. This in my opinion hurts flow as compared to the older castings, which were dismal to begin with. Porting will help the exhaust immensly. I have seen this casting number on vehicles until the early '80's models trucks and '79 lincolns.
I have also heard tell of a D4VE casting and a D8VE casting
All castings until the advent of the E7TE and F3TE fuelie cylinder head are very similar and are interchangeable
Note: Valve inclination angles are 5 degrees / 9 degrees 30 minutes ( inclined in 2 planes) for the intake and 4 degrees 30 minutes on the exhaust. They are
known as "poly angle" or "canted valve" heads. The valves open toward the bore centerline unshrouding as they open. This is an advantage compared to in line
wedge heads. The flow path has a straigher shot from the back of the valves to the port entrys/exits.
home
There are pics of most of these castings, at this point in time, elswhere on this site

Ford casting numbers explained



95cc and upis a open chamber! 72cc would be a closed chamber!

visit http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/ too learn more

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 05:56 PM
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The above posting was from Scott @

http://www.reincarnation-automotive....s-1-index.html
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead559
i dont have too... they are alll the same!

(ETC ETC ETC ETC ["I read it on the internet"] ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC)

95cc and up is an open chamber! 72cc would be a closed chamber!

visit http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/ too learn more
Gearhead559,

Although your lifted text covers dimensional criteria about the D3's, it does not in any way confirm or deny whether these heads are open chamber or closed chamber. Why do you say that they are an open chamber head??? Please explain. Simply because they have a 97cc combustion chamber volume??? Combustion chamber volume has essentially NOTHING to do with open vs. closed chamber. The D3VE-A2A head is a textbook example of a closed chamber cylinder head.

The only open chamber passenger car wedge head Ford made for the 385 Series that I am aware of is the D2VE head. (In fact, please go back to the very webpage from which you lifted your text and you will see that RHP, too, states that the D2VE head is the only "large round OPEN combustion chamber design.")

Why in the world do you think the D3VE is an open chamber??? Please explain.

Paul

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 12:10 PM
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well paul IMO, and im sure im not the only one thats thinks so..

There is no way in hell, that i would call the D3 chambers closed. thinking back too my old 66 289 hipo heads, and looking at the D3s.. theres just no way. The D3 chambers take up 70 too 80% of the cylinder size.
plus with the chambers being so big, and the valves beeing deeper in the head, They more so go along the line of semi closed at best.


plus he pms me and says this(Rob the pasenger car has open chamber the truck has closed chamber heads same cc 95. There is 2 types of d3 heads here..Gregg)
which i know , for a fact they are all the same, only difference i have found , is some are drilled for the egr passages and some are not!

I would in NO way call them closed!

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 01:27 PM
 
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man I love these types of arguments! thanks for the education guys. seriously!
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Arguments

Rob I think what the problem here is not whether d3 are open or closed its the way people are on the attack of ones knowledge or the build, this may not be the correct place for this but it started here lets finish it here. To start with lets leave each other an out there is open and closed everyone has an opinion and thats fine. This is a fun place for the guru to showcase what they have done and for the novice to learn and stay motivated. There is a world of knowledge on this forum and mabe some people are afraid to express for fear of disagreement and conflict. When we say Dude we gota have more info or o hell no,hate to tell ya the wall goes up and communacation stops. Well im rambling on here, This is for everyone if we have a disagreement use the pm ( everyone has a rite to thier opinion ) Lets keep it fun. Gregg
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vnmus71gt
man I love these types of arguments! thanks for the education guys. seriously!
im not tryying too argu what so ever! LOL :lol: maybe i came off that way , but i didnt mean too!

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 05:32 PM
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It seems as though there is some confusion about the definition of a closed chamber head. No, the D3's are not the same as a 289 head, but that doesn't mean they aren't closed chamber heads. In my opinion, ALL 385 series heads with the exception of D2VE's are closed chamber. Closed chamber heads do not need to resemble a 289 head to be considered closed chamber.

I did a little research and came up with the following for everyone's reference. Take a look at the photos of what are considered closed chamber heads and tell me how they are different than D3's. Chamber volume plays no role. The definition is wheather or not there is a quench area. Take a look at these examples of different brand heads. The distinguishing factor is the quench pad.

I suppose if somebody really wanted to get technical, I would agree that the 385 heads are actually wedge style heads.....which would be a sub-catagory to the closed chamber style.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/atta...achmentid=8340
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/atta...achmentid=8341

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/t.../photo_22.html
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/t.../photo_23.html

http://www.suburbanimports.com.au/parts/454head2.jpg

http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~dcmur...hamber_336.jpg

http://www.billzilla.org/engcombust.htm
Wow!, Look at the size of the combustion chamber in the this CLOSED chamber head.... http://www.billzilla.org/4agheadpic.jpg

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 04:19 AM
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This would be a great topic in another forum as mentioned. There seems to be some confusion with the terminology of open/closed chamber. I must admit after reading the above posts that I didn't understand the terms correctly till I seen the moparmuscle pictures.

If I understand this correctly; and open chamber head is exactly that, 100% open to the cylinder bore. A closed chamber head has a combustion chamber cross section less than that of the cylinder bore whether it be 97cc's or 72 cc's.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 11:41 AM
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and look at the chambers on the D3s... its about 80%open too the bore.

Just like the BBC, theres open closed and semi open...if i rememeber right :?

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 11:53 AM
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Rob the FORD is not a Chevy Ford did make a open chamber head and you would tell the difference if you saw it the rest are closed.



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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:15 AM
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Gearhead,

As CarsByCarl pointed out, the primary difference is the use of the quench pad. All D3's have quench pads, and all D3's 97 cc combustion chambers are, by definition, a closed chamber.

You mentioned in a couple of posts above that the D3 chamber is exposed to about 80% of the bore. Is this why you view it as an open chamber head? This area of exposed combustion chamber to the cylinder bore and the area of exposed quench pad to the cylinder bore is the same between a D0VE and D3VE head. Does this make the D0VE head an open chamber head as well?

The D3VE cylinder head's combustion chamber is essentially at D0VE chamber that has been lowered .100" deeper into the casting. This is how the additional combustion chamber volume is created while maintaining the same amount of quench area/combustion chamber area opposite the cylinder bore.

Perhaps the widely understood/accepted definition of "open chamber" and "closed chamber" is different than your assumed interpretation of the textbook meaning.

Paul

p.s. Don't worry, I don't think you're arguing with me; I've noticed that you usually use a lot of exclamations in your posts. :mrgreen:

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