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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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C6 drums

I have a C6 with 351m/400 bell out of a 78/79 bronco with np205 adapter that I plan to use for my 425 hp 460 build, in a 72 F250.

My trans guy has disassembled and verified that it has what he calls 'small drums', and says I should use 'big drums' for my 460 application.

I have a FE/390 C6 in the truck now I would rather sell in functional condition with the 390 as a package. He thinks the FE C6 would have the large drums and could be used in the 351m/400 case I have.

Looking at diagrams I see there is a 'forward drum' and an 'direct drum' each with there own clutch packs. It appears that the 'direct drum' that can hold 5 clutches is available from a few places for about $80. Wondering if this is an option, or do I still need the larger forward drum as well...
He said the difference is in the location of the retainer clip that allow more or thicker clutches.

Builder also states that the 351m/400 case has a smaller reverse clutch that can cause chatter in reverse when running big tires (40"). I'm avoiding trying to find a real '460 c6' to address this. Anyone have an experience to share?

Trying to educated myself so I can make the right decisions, thanks.

Justin
72 F250
14 F250 6.7, CCLB, 37s
04 Mustang Cobra, 14psi + N20

Last edited by rattle_snake; 06-17-2019 at 04:56 PM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 04:33 AM
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Why not machine your drums ? A 3 clutch can easy have new snap ring groove to set up as 5 clutches

A 4 clutch forward can be done also . There is a few ways to get 5 depending what you have .
The drum you have could simply have a wave plate , that can be removed and the clutches added . There are thinner early frictions @ .061" , the later are .078"

As I say all depends what forward drum you have . A snap ring groove can be added if you have to.

A 4 clutch reverse can have the thick pressure plate step cut on the outer edge to get the 5th in..

Not all Big Block cases are 5 clutch , can be either. You really can't guarantee until you pull it down..

If you want to buy drums already setup , Broader Performance is the place
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregaust View Post
Why not machine your drums ? A 3 clutch can easy have new snap ring groove to set up as 5 clutches

A 4 clutch forward can be done also . There is a few ways to get 5 depending what you have .
The drum you have could simply have a wave plate , that can be removed and the clutches added . There are thinner early frictions @ .061" , the later are .078"

As I say all depends what forward drum you have . A snap ring groove can be added if you have to.

A 4 clutch reverse can have the thick pressure plate step cut on the outer edge to get the 5th in..

Not all Big Block cases are 5 clutch , can be either. You really can't guarantee until you pull it down..

If you want to buy drums already setup , Broader Performance is the place
Thank for the info, much appreciated.

I've only got so much time so I have to pick my battles....
Builder mentioned re-machined drums and said it is possible that a seal can get stuck into the groove and doesn't recommend

I called Broader for similar info. They said a forward drum 'should' hold 5 clutches already.
Broader sells Direct drums but not any forward drums. Given that higher gears have higher loading, it would make sense that direct/1:1 gear would need more clutches for same engine torque.

I asked builder more about the drums, he said the trans I have has:
4-clutch forward
3-clutch direct
He says I should go with:
5-clutch forward
4-clutch direct

I think I have found what I need
5-clutch forward 36554G, d5AZ 7A360B
4-clutch direct 36555 C9SZ 7D044A

https://www.transtar1.com/TranstarIn...dex.html#p=307

He seems to think my 390-c6 would have what I need.

Justin
72 F250
14 F250 6.7, CCLB, 37s
04 Mustang Cobra, 14psi + N20

Last edited by rattle_snake; 06-18-2019 at 05:55 PM.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 05:12 AM
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Your builder is wrong .. I'd not of mentioned to do if it wasn't safe . The 3 clutch direct drums (providing the drum only has one snap ring groove original ) can safely be upgraded to 5. There used to be a sticky post here Frank put info thee on exactly how to.
There are some original drums that for some reason have 2 grooves , Those can't be upgraded. Occasionally they pop up.

Those clutch counts you have are typical of a stock type C6

The 4 clutch forward , depending on how it is stacked now may take 5 easy , may need a new groove . There's a few variations. As I said above there's a few different ways around how to set up as 5

A good performance build has 5 in each pack. You could get by with 4 but while you are there

You could try that supplier but i'd be surprised if they actually have hard parts like that in stock any more

Another way around it if you wanted , you could look up the ALTO Power Packs. They usually have thinner steels and frictions to get more stacked in those drums.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 10:18 AM
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 04:04 AM
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I think those were the ones Frank was involved in the design of . I think you can get them from Frank also loaded from memory ??
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 04:07 AM
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 07:41 AM
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I have regrooved numerous drums with no problems. Used Franks instructions. The seal will never get stuck in the old lower groove but logic would say that a friction or steel might but it never happens.It maybe could happen if you shaved a bunch off the pressure plate.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattle_snake View Post
Builder mentioned re-machined drums and said it is possible that a seal can get stuck into the groove and doesn't recommend

.
Builder must have said "steel" not "seal". Impossible for a seal to get stuck.

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the info and help.

I was able to located what was marketed as a 5 clutch forward and a 4 clutch direct drum. Looking at them they I assume they have been modified. The forward has a wide groove much larger than a snap ring. The direct has a 2nd groove. I dropped them off with builder anyhow.

As mentioned above, he had said 'steel' not 'seal'. Claimed that the steel can get intermittently get out of alignment and then possibly no 3rd gear. He said he would try putting the guts into the drums I acquired and let me know if they would work. Plan B is to use parts out of my 72 390 C6.

He could have just built what I had and got paid already, so it seems he is trying to do the right thing based on his experience. I would guess he wants to use a standard kit to keep things simple and reduce risk of problems.


Justin
72 F250
14 F250 6.7, CCLB, 37s
04 Mustang Cobra, 14psi + N20
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