setting up a fuel pump and carb? - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-04-2011, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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setting up a fuel pump and carb?

I have a 460 .40 over flat tops with dove heads comp cam #34-235-4 with the pro magnum lifters, and roller rockers and so on. As my motor is close to being completed i am wondering what type of mechanical fuel pump and carb would work best in my 4wd truck. i was looking at the edelbrock 750 cfm, and the race series fuel pump by edelbrock that supports 130gph and 10 psi fuel pressure with a suggested regulator. would this be a workable combo with my cam choice, Any thoughts would be helpful this is the first of many truck builds for me. thanks in advance
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-04-2011, 06:48 PM
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Have you figured up what the compression ratio is going to be with that cam? I'm thinking that you are going to be somewhere in the high 11.something to 1 range. Also that cam is kind of a small cam for that high of compression. Unless I'm really missing something I think you are looking at some type of race gas in that thing.

The Edelbrock would work. They are decent street carbuerators but I personally don't think much of them for performance applications. QuickFuel technologies sells a decent line of street carbuerators with vaccume secondaries for only a little more money. Either that or the Holley 750 with vaccum secondaries.

That Edelbrock fuel pump would work fine.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-05-2011, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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i was hoping i wouldnt have to run race gas but something of the premium pump type for ease of drivablility to the local truck shows, i completed the comp cams cam quest and that cam is the power range i am looking for and hopfully i wont be twisting driveshafts. i am going to the shop in the morning to deliver my valve springs and the rest of my top end, so i will ask what the compression ratio is. what about the holley truck avenger carb better than the edelbrock?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-05-2011, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Marinetj03 View Post
i was hoping i wouldnt have to run race gas but something of the premium pump type for ease of drivablility to the local truck shows, i completed the comp cams cam quest and that cam is the power range i am looking for and hopfully i wont be twisting driveshafts. i am going to the shop in the morning to deliver my valve springs and the rest of my top end, so i will ask what the compression ratio is. what about the holley truck avenger carb better than the edelbrock?
Honestly for what you are doing I'd be looking at more like a 850 double pumper. I know they say to use vaccume secondaries on heavier cars but the double pumper's really thump. I've always had good luck with them. I just put a 750 double pumper on my 1974 F100 (a milder motor than yours but a brand new build) and it is fantastic. Great throttle response. An 850 double pumper is about $200 more than that Edelbrock 750 but you would be a lot happier with it. I guarantee that.

Your motor will hold more cam. If this is a weekend fun toy I'd look into it if I were you. To high of compression with out much cam is not a real problem. To much cam without enough compression is a problem. I think you will be leaving a good bit of power on the table with your cam choice. It may be the RPM range that you want but if it is a stock bottom end (crank and rods) and they were reconditioned properly there is no reason why you can't spin it to 6500 RPM. You will be fine.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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you are right about the compression ratio high 11's i guess i over shot the 10.5 i was aiming for. I would go with a bigger cam but i only have half the port job just the exhaust done on my dove heads, i already have my 2000 stall converter for my c 6, my heads have been set up for the cam, which means if i swap the cam i would have to swap the valve springs back out, and i ordered everything from summit begininning to be a real pain in my rear and i am running out of money what a headache.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 03:34 PM
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You are really going to hate this then... That compression is to high to run on pump gas. It would be great for E-85 though. But you would have to get a compatible carbuerator and fuel pump. You would also have to make sure that your fuel lines are compatible as well. Either that or just put race gas in the thing. I'm thinking I saw in another post that your pistons are the Speed Pro hyper flat tops. If that is the case then they won't last long if you start detonating. You might be able to run a 50/50 mix of race gas and premium unleaded. That would bring you in at around a 100 octane rating. You would be able to get by with that. NO nitrous though. Those hypers will really hate that!

...maybe even a premium unleaded and E-85 50/50 mix might do.

Your motor will run fine with that compression and cam. You can get away with under camming it. It is when you stick in a big hairy bump stick with low compression that everything goes to crap.

Depening on what your valve springs are you could possibly cam it up a bit without having to change them. I can't remember the numbers of what you have but it really was a very mild cam for the rest of your build. You could call Comp Cams and see how big you can go with those valve springs. I'm betting that you can go a bit higher. I have a bigger cam than what you have in my 466. It idles at 600 RPM and there is no lope at all. You really are leaving some power on the table. I'd call CompCams and see what else can be done. I'm talking myself into it as I type this... Below are the spec's to my Lunati VooDoo cam in my 466. I'm telling you. No lope and it idles at 600 RPM. It also uses a stock stall converter and is quite happy. It is Lunati part number 61602. Below are the spec's.

•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .540/.552
•LSA/ICL: 112/108
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 1400-5800

Here is a link to my Race Truck with my other motor. This is running a stock drive shaft. You are in no way going to break your drive shaft with the motor you are putting together. This video is all motor (around 800HP). It is 1100 HP when it is on the bottle.

http:http://www.MrScharfenberger.com/F100...vs86Camaro.wmv

Good luck with the build. Don't give up. You will get there... And it will put a big smile on your face when you do!!

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Last edited by MrScharfenberger; 01-08-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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i definitely dont want nitrous to scary when you come off the line in a mud race and cant control it. my valve springs are the comp cams 926-16 to match the cam. i am using the hyper flats seemed like a good idea when i had the d3ve but then i got my dove's for 100 bucks. that lunati cam is a nice cam lotsa power, i think i am going to swap out my pistons to a dish and get a 10.5 ratio for more pump friendly i will have to talk with my machine shop and see what they suggest, of course the race fuel is my last resort as i still wanna drive it on the streets my block is a d9te high nickel type, i dunno whats gonna happen but i definitely have to find a second job to support my wanna be racing habit lol i am also running a 513 gear ratio with a 44 in tall tire thats a lot of weight to be coming off the line like that nicew truck though
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 07:56 PM
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I would check with the piston manufacter you may be able to have your machine shop mill a dish into them to lower the compression to be suitable some piston have enough material to do it and some don't so make sure you call the manufacturer.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2011, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
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just a question would my hp and tq numbers be close to the same if i swapped my d0ves for d3ve to help the compression ratio, if not i am just going to mix a lil race fuel with some 93 octane and try it out if it cause problems then i will start over trial and error heres the cam specs
Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,400-5,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 218
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 226
Duration at 050 inch Lift 218 int./226 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 262
Advertised Exhaust Duration 270
Advertised Duration 262 int./270 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.514 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.524 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.514 int./0.524 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees) 111
Computer-Controlled Compatible No
Grind Number FF X4 262H-11
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2011, 10:26 AM
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Do you have the part number on the valve springs? I'd like to look up their advertised seat pressures and see what other cam you can put in. I know you can get away with a little more. My cam is bigger and I run a stock stall converter. It has no issues with that at all. But as I said earlier there is no lope to the idle and it idles at 600 RPM. With that being said I have a set pf 50 series tires on it with a mini-spool and 3.50 gears. It will just flat burn both tires to the ground if I just stomp on it from a dead stop. The 2000 rpm stall that you have will be better utilized with a larger cam as well. You don't need that stall converter at all with that cam, but it won't hurt anything either... Let me know what the valve spring info is.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinetj03 View Post
just a question would my hp and tq numbers be close to the same if i swapped my d0ves for d3ve to help the compression ratio, if not i am just going to mix a lil race fuel with some 93 octane and try it out if it cause problems then i will start over trial and error heres the cam specs
Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,400-5,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 218
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 226
Duration at 050 inch Lift 218 int./226 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 262
Advertised Exhaust Duration 270
Advertised Duration 262 int./270 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.514 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.524 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.514 int./0.524 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees) 111
Computer-Controlled Compatible No
Grind Number FF X4 262H-11
If you are not too far along with building the D0VEs, the swap to the D3s would likely be your best bet, especially if you already have the short block together.
Tom

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2011, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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my valve springs are the comp cams 926-16 to match the cam, i might set up the d3ve as well as the d0ve that way if i dont like one i can swap the others in. the d3ve are being sent to the shop to get some porting done next week, my d0ve are complete ready to go the long block is ready waiting for my msd ignition stuff to make it through the mail decided to go with the holley truck avenger 770 cfm
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2011, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
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my valve springs are the comp cams 926-16 to match the cam, i might set up the d3ve as well as the d0ve that way if i dont like one i can swap the others in. the d3ve are being sent to the shop to get some porting done next week, my d0ve are complete ready to go the long block is ready waiting for my msd ignition stuff to make it through the mail decided to go with the holley truck avenger 770 cfm
WoW!! Those are single springs. I didn't realize that. Not much you can do with those. So do you want the most power out of this build that you can get?? Or are you going for some kind of economy here?? If this is a toy you would be crazy to move from DOVE heads to the D3's. I know you already have the valve springs on but it would be not much work to take the springs back off and get a decent set of dual valve springs for a larger cam. If you go to the D3's and keep that cam setup you will be lucky to be making 350 horse power. If you keep the DOVE heads and set up the cam and valve train package you can easily make 475 to 525 horse power or more.

Check this cam out: http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1682&gid=287

Your motor would be happy with this (happier anyway). I'd show you some larger ones but your stall converter is a little small. You could still get away with this though. Also send back that Holley Avenger 770 and stick a Holley 850 double pumper on that thing. If you are mud bogging this thing you will be much happier with the 850 DP. That avenger 770 is much more of a street carb. Not really made for what you want to do with it. It will work. But you will be leaving power on the table.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2011, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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wow now thats a cam to light fire to the tires. i was going for more of a hot rod 4x4 build something that can be street driven and be mildly off roaded kind of like a head turner. this motor is going in a 84 f150 ext cab c6 tranny with 2006 f350 axles and 8 inches of lift. i looked at the double pumper but i am not to sure on the mechanical secondaries, everyone in florida is running vacum i am going to sleep on this tonight do some research tomorrow thanks for you input
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2011, 06:52 PM
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wow now thats a cam to light fire to the tires. i was going for more of a hot rod 4x4 build something that can be street driven and be mildly off roaded kind of like a head turner. this motor is going in a 84 f150 ext cab c6 tranny with 2006 f350 axles and 8 inches of lift. i looked at the double pumper but i am not to sure on the mechanical secondaries, everyone in florida is running vacum i am going to sleep on this tonight do some research tomorrow thanks for you input
I'm telling you... If this is a toy you want t double pumper. That is really a pretty small cam as well for your heads and pistons. I promise. If you stab that baby in you won't be disappointed. You will be WAY happier with it than with the one you have. It won't be to radical at all and it will be very drivealbe. I assure you of this. Ask some other people and see what they think.

Like I said I have a 466 with that other Lunati Cam that I gave you the specs on. It is incredibly tame. No lope and idles perfect. The cam you have is smaller than that. If you are building this to have some fun with then step it up a bit. Let it lope a bit and turn some RPM's. These big motors love it!!

With all of that being said there are some guys on here that can custom grind a cam for you for just a few bucks more. (Come on guys.. I know you are in here. Read this thread and tell this guy he needs a bigger cam... Because he DOES!! Check out this build and help lead him to the promise land!!)

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