Drag shocks and sticky tires - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Drag shocks and sticky tires

Just replaced the 3:50 ratio rear gears with 4:11's in my 1967 Mustang. Typically the car doesn't spin off the line with 16 lbs in the MT 28 x10.5 x 15ET drags. On Sunday it spun badly and eventually I had to go down to 12 psi and it was still spinning at the line.

It has been mentioned before that my car's front end doesn't rise much on launch. Can anyone recommend a front drag shock for a 1967 Mustang that might aid it hooking up a little better?

Also, my MT 28 x 10.5's are almost worn out. Do 3 year old slicks with close to 100 passes on them get less sticky? Any recommmendations on tires? I can't run bigger than 28" tall or 10.5" wide due to wheel wells.

thanks

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 02:45 AM
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They will get harder if you're heating the dog poop out of them. A lot of people don't adhere to it but it's only necessary to do about a 3 second burnout, mostly to clean the tire and partly to warm it. If you aren't getting enough stick after that, maybe you need to go to a softer compound. IMHO. Yeah, I know.....everybody likes to see the John Force half trackers....but he has tire sponsers...
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 06:18 PM
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Wore out tires will often get harder as the core of the tire is made from a more durable rubber.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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no fun

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They will get harder if you're heating the dog poop out of them. A lot of people don't adhere to it but it's only necessary to do about a 3 second burnout, mostly to clean the tire and partly to warm it. If you aren't getting enough stick after that, maybe you need to go to a softer compound. IMHO. Yeah, I know.....everybody likes to see the John Force half trackers....but he has tire sponsers...
Rob
Too much?

How about drag shocks? I've also heard some people remove their front anti-sway bar to get the front end coming up faster.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 08:06 PM
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I'm not sure if others have had this experience or not but I've found that I'll spin the tires easier when I do a John Force style half track burn out. Rob is right. All you have to do is about a 2 to 3 second burn out to clean them off. I'm not saying this is what you were doing. I'm just saying...

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 08:43 PM
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[QUOTE=460fastback;970383]Too much?

How about drag shocks? I've also heard some people remove their front anti-sway bar to get the front end coming up faster.
IMO removing the sway bar putting in urethane bushings, trick front springs and a set of 90/10 shocks is just a standard starting point. The brand is up to you.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 09:16 PM
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My M5 compount MT ET Drags run best at 8 1/2-9 1/2 psi. And proper droop is very important.

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Droop?

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My M5 compount MT ET Drags run best at 8 1/2-9 1/2 psi. And proper droop is very important.
Whats droop?

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2011, 11:21 PM
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droop

Thats when u let the air out verses airing them up more tie on the ground ..If ur going to drive the car mostly on the street don`t the sway off...Bill
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 12:21 PM
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Thats when u let the air out verses airing them up more tie on the ground ..If ur going to drive the car mostly on the street don`t the sway off...Bill
u can remove the link on one side of the sway bar at the track. u want 5" of travel in the front end measure the fender well at rest then jack it up till tire is just off and measure. rancho shock 9ways work well on leaf spring cars talk with cal-trac they can get u to hook

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 460fastback View Post
Just replaced the 3:50 ratio rear gears with 4:11's in my 1967 Mustang. Typically the car doesn't spin off the line with 16 lbs in the MT 28 x10.5 x 15ET drags. On Sunday it spun badly and eventually I had to go down to 12 psi and it was still spinning at the line.

It has been mentioned before that my car's front end doesn't rise much on launch. Can anyone recommend a front drag shock for a 1967 Mustang that might aid it hooking up a little better?

Also, my MT 28 x 10.5's are almost worn out. Do 3 year old slicks with close to 100 passes on them get less sticky? Any recommmendations on tires? I can't run bigger than 28" tall or 10.5" wide due to wheel wells.

thanks
Yes old slicks get less sticky, how much depends on how they were treated burn out wise and how they are stored in the off season.
I like the Calvert Racing front shock.
http://www.calvertracing.com/frontshocks.php
I don't run a front sway bar and I drive my car anywhere.
Handling is however obviously sacrificed for takeoff traction.
I do however run 390 FE big block springs.
I found that the rear shocks are almost as important as the front, as my car has the Calvert rear shocks and will blow the tires away if they are set only two clicks to stiff. I don't have their rear leaf springs, but eventually plan to get them. If you aren't running Caltrac rear bars, I would get a set.

67 mustang street car, 1977 460, 212 degree cam, 2500 converter, 3.50 gears, RHP Edelbrock heads
best ET 12.01, mph 112.98, 60ft 1.69

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 01:10 PM
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Once again, ladies and gentlemen, "Doorslammers, The Chassis Book" by Dave Morgan.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-158/
Read it, read it, read it and read it some more.
Rob

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
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Once again, ladies and gentlemen, "Doorslammers, The Chassis Book" by Dave Morgan.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-158/
Read it, read it, read it and read it some more.
Rob
I have that book and agree it's good.
I would also recommend having a friend videotape the takeoff.
It's near impossible to know EXACTLY what the chassis is doing from inside the car.

67 mustang street car, 1977 460, 212 degree cam, 2500 converter, 3.50 gears, RHP Edelbrock heads
best ET 12.01, mph 112.98, 60ft 1.69

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HztIgJymNw

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/laveennick/
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 01:56 PM
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I have that book and agree it's good.
I would also recommend having a friend videotape the takeoff.
It's near impossible to know EXACTLY what the chassis is doing from inside the car.
Quite true, there is no substitute for R&D and testing. Be that as it may, the science involved in getting a chassis to the point where it can be made to, and expected to, perform to a certain end result must be applied first. When the tried and true engineering parameters are applied in the design stage of a chassis build and are adhered to, there are very definate and repeatable results that can be expected and used to achieve a properly handling chassis. It's all science and applied mathematics. Apearently the OP doesn't have knowledge of these tools or else he wouldn't ask the disjointed questions that he has. Chassis science must be understood as a whole. There are no "one trick does it all" changes that will get a street car into the 6's (or any other #'s for that matter of fact). The factory uses certain design parameters and few of these parameters will be applied to a performance chassis, thus when changes are made they must be made et/al or they will be mostly a waste of time, money and effort. Education is the key.
Rob

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2011, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quite true, there is no substitute for R&D and testing. Be that as it may, the science involved in getting a chassis to the point where it can be made to, and expected to, perform to a certain end result must be applied first. When the tried and true engineering parameters are applied in the design stage of a chassis build and are adhered to, there are very definate and repeatable results that can be expected and used to achieve a properly handling chassis. It's all science and applied mathematics. Apearently the OP doesn't have knowledge of these tools or else he wouldn't ask the disjointed questions that he has. Chassis science must be understood as a whole. There are no "one trick does it all" changes that will get a street car into the 6's (or any other #'s for that matter of fact). The factory uses certain design parameters and few of these parameters will be applied to a performance chassis, thus when changes are made they must be made et/al or they will be mostly a waste of time, money and effort. Education is the key.
Rob
Rob,

I haven't been lectured to like that since I was in grade school! There are plently of fairly easy going guys at our drag race club that are more than happy to answer questions from neewbies such as myself. I'll save my questions for them. This site is weird. Sometimes I watch people ask questions and they are treated almost with kid gloves, polite answers even if the questions are maybe a little off the beaten path. then other times a question is asked and the senior members seem to almost take offence to the question being asked. Maybe a guy that doesn't have 16" wide tires, 4500 carbs, P-51 heads and 20 years of drag racing knowledge should take a drag racing course before asking questions on this site!

As far as engineering and applied science, I have post secondary education in both plus 35 years of experience in Engineering and Maintenance departments in heavy industry. I understand both but at our post secondary schools in Canada, engineering programs don't cover traction issues on drag race cars, hence my questions. Don't worry, I'll not bother you with disjointed questions again!!!!

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