Need more timing-water injection? - 460 Ford Forum
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Need more timing-water injection?

My truck is set up to run on pump gas ..runs great in first four gears to 7200 in forth gear..but above 6400 in fifth I have had to pull total timing back to 26degrees to stop knock....just too much load on engine..has anyone run water injection on a n/a big motor ..motor loves 16 initial and 34 total...really want to run in lthe 200's ...rdw
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 12:37 AM
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I have a snow performance kit meth/water injection on mine. I havent run it yet, as its setup to turn on with the NOS hit and havent been to the track. I run 20-22 initial ( i think) and 37ish total I believe on my 521 but my mallory 685 box takes out 10* on startup.

your meth/water jet would have to be prob the smallest of the jets included for the NA motor kit they sell, they are based on HP rating but your not really running a power adder so Im not sure how that works out for you which is why I recommend the smallest jet first. Have it kick in at WOT and don't touch the timing! you can run the boost juice or save yourself come coin and run standard -20 below wiper fluid (thats what I do). Run the jet in the air cleaner not after the carb otherwise u need a solenoid and prob dual jet setup.

1987 Firebird
521 BBF 10.8:1 FAST EZ EFI 2.0
2004R GM OD Trans swap, NX NOS kit
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for reply...Looking for someone currently running water injection..on n/a..motor liked more timing on race gas,but I drive this thing everywhere so we have detuned it to run on pump gas...running same mallory box as you,planning on using window switch to turn on injection above 4500 rpm?..looking at plate system...still have my rsr pump and pieces from when was turboed pinto motor....looking for volume of spray and inception point...Have had truck running for two years now and still have not had one clean mile run...Hopefully its de bugged now..just would like to put more timing back in...rdw
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 10:48 AM
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The difference between an NA and non NA motor are
Negligible. My kit is not for a power adder per say as its the base model kit, for an NA setup. I can tell u that Injecting it at idle stalled the motor out lol.

I will tell u that u are a prime canidate for there new progressive MPG setup. And should prob consider getting there kit or talking to them. Basically injects a small amount progressively to increase your MPG and allow you to run lower octane fuel. This means that it will work through out the RPM band and thus solve your problem of timing. Should allow u to run full timing as long as you got juice in the container. You don't need a whole lot to keep off the detonation issue your having, only problem is the progressive kits are a good bit more money bc of the controller and such. I personally think it will solve your problem and let you run full timing and get the most out of your setup.

As a test to see if it works u could drain your tank and run in some high octane gas mixed with premium pump and see if your issue goes away. Then you know u need more octane for more timing. Meth injection will give u both that and at 2$ a gallon is worth it honestly.

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2004R GM OD Trans swap, NX NOS kit
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 10:52 AM
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The above kit is designed for disels and pter vehicles that have compression related issues but are for other vehicles as well.

Other thing to consider is with a plate setup bc its below the carb u must run a solenoid or the meth with be sucked through at all rpms due to vacuum. Also plate systems need a min of 2 seperate injectors opposite of each other. This was an issue I had as I did not get a plate system as its not the base model kit and I already have my NOS plate there. I tapped the base of my air cleaner to it would inject spray over the whole top of the carb to evenly distribute the mix and that is something you also need to consider.

1987 Firebird
521 BBF 10.8:1 FAST EZ EFI 2.0
2004R GM OD Trans swap, NX NOS kit
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-07-2013, 05:41 PM
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I've run the Snow Performance plate on my truck for a couple years now as I had to either pull lots of timing or cut my fuel with Av gas. I use -49 wiper fluid (50% water, 49% methanol and 1% detergent) and dual jets on the plate, because of the amount of fluid used on drives I installed a fuel cell in the bed. It's worked great, hoping to see how it works with the cheater plate in a couple weeks. In the pic you can see the water/methanol pump under the front of the bottles.

John
2 1/2 Tons of Nitrous Fun

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-15-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77F150 View Post


I've run the Snow Performance plate on my truck for a couple years now as I had to either pull lots of timing or cut my fuel with Av gas. I use -49 wiper fluid (50% water, 49% methanol and 1% detergent) and dual jets on the plate, because of the amount of fluid used on drives I installed a fuel cell in the bed. It's worked great, hoping to see how it works with the cheater plate in a couple weeks. In the pic you can see the water/methanol pump under the front of the bottles.
Whats your combo? compression etc and how much timing did you pull?

1987 Firebird
521 BBF 10.8:1 FAST EZ EFI 2.0
2004R GM OD Trans swap, NX NOS kit
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-15-2013, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post
Whats your combo? compression etc and how much timing did you pull?
It's a 472 (TRW forged) with heavily ported DOVE heads, Performer RPM intake with 850 Demon fed by an Aeromotive fuel pump which is lit by a full MSD ignition and breathing out Stan's Tri-y's to dual 2.5" exhaust. Now the compression ratio is a story in itself, somehow during machine work and assembly that got missed completely! The heads were milled and spec at 74cc's and the pistons are flat top but all I know is that 93 octane sounds like a popcorn maker. Tuning on the dyno got me out of a lean condition but I needed to run 110 Av gas to keep the timing at 36, with the water/methanol I run 32 degrees on 93. The nitrous plate is being sent to Steve Johnson for blueprint and flow so I won't get to spray until next season but normally pull 8 degrees.

John
2 1/2 Tons of Nitrous Fun
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