pushrod hitting guide plates - Page 2 - 460 Ford Forum
Jon Kaase Racing Engines Jon Kaase is considered one of the best minds in the world of Big Block Fords and has created many parts to help enthusiasts with their 460 based projects. Gentlemen start your questions…

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-13-2010, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
I had this exact same issue 4 years ago and gave up!!! My build, Scott's first set of ported DOVEs, comp solid roller, Harland Sharp roller rockers, Comp stepped guide plates. The exhaust side would bind in the guide plate so I ground a little meat out of the guide plate stud hole so I could rotate it away from the push rod. It worked in theory but have had nothing but problems with the motor since. Rockers walking off. Loose studs. A dropped valve!!!

So whats the fix? Milling the pedestals down? I used the swipe method to determine pr length and came up with 8.4. Randy whats the correct method? Do I need to switch to different rockers on the exhaust side? My HS rockers are the Ford part but I've heard people have issues with them.

I'm not trying to thread jack but this is the first time in 4 years someone else has had the same problem I have!!
Sometimes you can get away with NOT milling the pedestals and it will work but, it is NOT correct.
Harland Sharp has TWO part numbers for a big block Ford rocker arm. One will NEVER have a wipe pattern more than halfway toward the intake flange side of the valve tip when the rest of the geometry is correct. However, that rocker arm will exhibit the best valve and guide wear scenario.
Geometry on the PUSHROD side of a ROLLER rocker arm is much more important to be near correct than ANY other single place. The pushrod should be perpendicular to the rocker arm cup recepticle at 1/2 to 3/4 valve lift. Some compromise is usually necessary to have all the geometries close to right.

EDIT: Everything in the industry seems to revolve around the small block Chevy and for some reason people tend to think this will be correct for every engine in the marketplace.

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Last edited by rmcomprandy; 06-13-2010 at 09:48 PM.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 12:57 AM
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The best I can tell they have a 1.73 and a 1.8 rocker. I know 1.73 is factory ratio and thats what I'm running so why am I having this binding issue? I'm still very confused

'71 torino gt m-code
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 09:48 AM
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The best I can tell they have a 1.73 and a 1.8 rocker. I know 1.73 is factory ratio and thats what I'm running so why am I having this binding issue? I'm still very confused
You're having problems because you are treating your engine as if it was a small block Chevrolet ... when the geometry is close to right and the pedestals have been milled correctly there are no problems.

They may have 1.73's and 1.8's in BOTH part numbers; I believe they are S4073 and S4005.
EDIT: these part numbers are from memory so they may not be exactly correct.

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torinoman View Post
The best I can tell they have a 1.73 and a 1.8 rocker. I know 1.73 is factory ratio and thats what I'm running so why am I having this binding issue? I'm still very confused
A lot more than just the ratio to consider. These are not my pics. Thanks to the guy that did this, who ever you are!
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-15-2010, 10:49 AM
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I took some pic's of the intake and exhaust valves open and closed.
Does the geometry look right to you guy's?
Because I did the same thing as torinoman did, grinding a little from the guide plate so the pushrod wouldn't bind up against it when the valve closed.
This is my first BB build so I just want to make sure it's right.

Thanks for the help.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-15-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Link View Post
I took some pic's of the intake and exhaust valves open and closed.
Does the geometry look right to you guy's?
Because I did the same thing as torinoman did, grinding a little from the guide plate so the pushrod wouldn't bind up against it when the valve closed.
This is my first BB build so I just want to make sure it's right.

Thanks for the help.
The geometry looks to be half-way decent however, the pedestals NEED to be milled; especially with a raised guideplate.

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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 09:52 PM
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i had a little bit of the same problem with my 521 dove heads and i tried different lengths of pushrods and it did not help i had installed comp cams 3/8 guide plates and the exaust pushrod was binding hard so i called comp cams and asked them what they thought abought it and they told me to just grind it out to clearance it some. well i was not satisfied with that answer so i thought about a different manufacture of guide plates and remembered that the last motor that i built did not have this issue and i was running manley guide plates. I ordered a set of their plates and they had gobs of clearance, and my rockers were in alot better alignment. This may not be everybodys fix but it definatley solved my problems. see ya Donny
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-01-2010, 09:54 PM
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Randy, is there any way to tell if the pedestals were cut and how much they were cut without removing the heads from the engine?

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 12:29 AM
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Guideplate issue

I know you guys are very passionate about helping a fellow out and a lot of your advice is very good.
Just from my experience, I have never heard much good about HS Rockers. They don't break is all I have heard but test done by Crane showed they flex way too much with high spring pressures.
Crane and Comp Cams both offered Rockers with different Ratios. When I worked on a top Winston Cup Team in the middle to late 80s before Jesels and rockers with studs and guide plates were still used, we had many different ratios. There were 1.73, 1.65s all the way to 1.5 for the Fords and 1.35 for Chevys for Break in Purposes. So, there are many ratios to play with.

Next, when you are working with the older Ford 429 and 460 Heads that had screw in studs from the factory and you want to install Guideplates you have to mill the stud boss down the thickness of the Guideplate because the stud will be too high and cause a lot of problems.

So take the advice of some of the posters who are trying to help.

Use a good quality Rocker, Crane is back with the new owners, S&S Motorcycle Company.
Comp Cams and Crower, Isky, and a couple of others.

Use at least an 8.550 to 8.650 Pushrod.

And mill down the stud boss the thickness of the guideplate.

See if that doesn't make a big difference.

Mike @ Performance Modifications.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2010, 06:11 PM
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update....

switched to a manley plate from the comp cams guide plate that was causing some misalignment issues. also switched to the new style comp pro mag rocker from the harland sharp rockers. and I remeasured using the advise from guys here and ended up with a 8.65 pushrod. that length is an entire quarter inch longer than what I had before. the geometry seems a lot better and we'll see if this cures the problems I've had.

I have been doing some reading about Miller Mid Lift rockers and noticed they offer some kind of tool to measure for correct geometry and pushrod length. anyone know anything about this tool? does it only work on their rocker?

I didn't mill the pedestals down cause if I'm gonna hoist these 68lb iron lumps off one more time P-51s will be going back in their place!!

thanks for the help guys

'71 torino gt m-code
now- 460 w/roller cam
one day w/t56
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 07:37 PM
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I'm curious as to what Roller Rocker arm would be a good choice For an iron headed 460 Geometry wise ? A "Proper Ford Rocker Arm"
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