[alabamaautoappraiser]

Hello everyone. First time post. I have a 1973 460 and it is backfiring when accelerating. I tried everything to fix the problem but it wouldn’t get any better. I noticed a lifter ticking on the #1 cylinder. I removed the valve cover and intake and one of the pushrods on #1 was very loose. I took both lifters out of #1 and one was shorter than the other. It appears the bottom of the lifter has worn away which is making it shorter. My question is, can I get by with replacing just the lifters or do I need to replace the camshaft as well? I’m just relieved I found out what was causing the backfire. What would you replace? All that metal had to go somewhere which has me concerned. Do you think the wear was caused by the camshaft? Thank you!

Update: After doing some research it looks like I will have to replace the camshaft and lifters. Luckily they come in a set. What camshaft would you recommend? I wouldn’t mind upgrading to another camshaft that will improve performance and give the engine that lope sound everybody seems to love. Would I need new rocker arms and springs? I honestly don’t know where to start. None of these camshaft specs make any sense to me. It’s like reading a different language. Again it’s a 1973 460 with a Holley 750 double pump, HEI distributor, Weiand Stealth intake, headers with flowmasters and everything else is stock. Thanks again for any advise.

 

[The Mad Porter]

This type of cam / lifter failure is typically caused by using oils with out the proper additive package for flat tappet cams. ZDDP.

Hot rod oil compatible with flat tappet cams. Valvoline VR for example.

Yes that crap has to go somewhere. If the lifter fails slowly the filter can usually catch the metal particulates.

If the oil has a metallic sheen you may be best served by inspecting other areas of the engine for excessive wear.

Cam and lifter kit and a straight up timing set.
The OEM head set up will limit the lift you can use. Keep duration short as the static c/r is under 8 to 1.






Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Log in or sign up to view

 

[alabamaautoappraiser]

Thank you Mad Porter! That is what I was hoping to hear. No metal shavings could be found anywhere. I will definitely go with the Valvoline VR In the future. I spoke to a technician at Summit Racing and he suggested I go with this setup as I wouldn't have to change torque converters and the pushrod should be the same length.

Thanks again! https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k34-600-5

 

[alabamaautoappraiser]

This type of cam / lifter failure is typically caused by using oils with out the proper additive package for flat tappet cams. ZDDP.

Hot rod oil compatible with flat tappet cams. Valvoline VR for example.

Yes that crap has to go somewhere. If the lifter fails slowly the filter can usually catch the metal particulates.

If the oil has a metallic sheen you may be best served by inspecting other areas of the engine for excessive wear.

Cam and lifter kit and a straight up timing set.
The OEM head set up will limit the lift you can use. Keep duration short as the static c/r is under 8 to 1.






Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Log in or sign up to view

Thank you Mad Porter! That is what I was hoping to hear. No metal shavings could be found anywhere. I will definitely go with the Valvoline VR In the future. I spoke to a technician at Summit Racing and he suggested I go with this setup as I wouldn't have to change torque converters and the pushrod should be the same length. What do you think of this kit?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k34-600-5

 

[The Mad Porter]

Thank you Mad Porter! That is what I was hoping to hear. No metal shavings could be found anywhere. I will definitely go with the Valvoline VR In the future. I spoke to a technician at Summit Racing and he suggested I go with this setup as I wouldn't have to change torque converters and the pushrod should be the same length.

Thanks again! https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k34-600-5

That cam will be a DOG with your current less than 8 to 1 static c/r.
As is typical the "summit tech" knows not wtf he is talking about.

That cam needs 9.5 to 1 static, proper ignition curve, better intake manifold, headers AND at 2500 to 2800 stall convertor.







Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Parkland Auto Machine

 

[MrScharfenberger]

I would not try to hot rod a motor that just ate a lifter. It will be a waste of money. You are being way to optimistic in my opinion. Trying to put a stock cam and a set of lifters in it to get more miles out of an old more is one thing. Hot roding the motor is another... That metal went somewhere and I guarantee it wasn't all into the filter. If you want to hot rod that motor you need to yank it out and check it out first. And like Scotty said you need to get the motor up to 9.5:1 compression ratio before you put a larger cam in it or you will be horribly disappointed with the results. I PROMISE!

 

[alabamaautoappraiser]

I would not try to hot rod a motor that just ate a lifter. It will be a waste of money. You are being way to optimistic in my opinion. Trying to put a stock cam and a set of lifters in it to get more miles out of an old more is one thing. Hot roding the motor is another... That metal went somewhere and I guarantee it wasn't all into the filter. If you want to hot rod that motor you need to yank it out and check it out first. And like Scotty said you need to get the motor up to 9.5:1 compression ratio before you put a larger cam in it or you will be horribly disappointed with the results. I PROMISE!

thank you. I’ve decided this is what I’m going to do. What do I need to do to get the compression ratio to 9.5:1? it’s pretty much a stock 460. I know I could research it for hours and hours and figure it out but asking you guys is much easier and correct. Also this is a picture of the camshaft I took out this morning. The first cam bearing was totally eaten up. all the rest of the cam bearings were showing copper streaks. I do appreciate y’all‘s advice.

 

[MrScharfenberger]

This is a street car I assume? How much HP realisticly do you want/can afford? It's going to be somewhere around $1500 to get the block ready for a rebuild. Then you will need new pistons to get the compression up. What heads do you have? D3VE-A2A? Also you will want to at least have the rods reconditioned with new rod bolts. Or maybe new rods & pistons. That seems to be a popular route. This is a slippery slope and horespower costs money so get ready to spend some bucks. Also some parts can be hard to get these days.

 

[alabamaautoappraiser]

This is a street car I assume? How much HP realisticly do you want/can afford? It's going to be somewhere around $1500 to get the block ready for a rebuild. Then you will need new pistons to get the compression up. What heads do you have? D3VE-A2A? Also you will want to at least have the rods reconditioned with new rod bolts. Or maybe new rods & pistons. That seems to be a popular route. This is a slippery slope and horespower costs money so get ready to spend some bucks. Also some parts can be hard to get these days.

i’m not really going for a high horsepower engine. Pretty much a mild street car with as many stock parts I can get away with. dependability and a nice sound is pretty much all I’m looking for. i’m pulling the engine tomorrow so I’ll know the info on the heads. I was hoping to keep the stock pistons if possible. This is a low budget rebuild. I also bought a Weiand stealth intake and push rods that are the same length As the stock ones. The guy at summit racing tech department said it would work but I’m beginning to doubt that. I’m pretty sure I’ll need to switch over to adjustable rocker arms. He also said I could get away with using my stock torque converter in the C6 transmission. I have headers and a Holley 750 double pump. Here is the cam kit I’ve already bought.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k34-600-5

 

[MrScharfenberger]

If your motor is less that 8:1 now you won't want to put that cam in it. All you will do is use LOTS of gas and have no power. It really will run like crap. Don't do it. I'm sure Scotty knows what CC those pistons are but perhaps you could find a cast builder set that will get your compression up to where it needs to be for that cam.

 

[alabamaautoappraiser]

If your motor is less that 8:1 now you won't want to put that cam in it. All you will do is use LOTS of gas and have no power. It really will run like crap. Don't do it. I'm sure Scotty knows what CC those pistons are but perhaps you could find a cast builder set that will get your compression up to where it needs to be for that cam.

OK. Thanks for all the advice. I’ll be pulling the motor tomorrow and will know more details then. I guess I’ll have to do what needs to be done to make it right the first time.

 

[Werecow]

Easiest way to pick up compression and solve your valvetrain problem is to get a set of older heads. Find a set of D0VE heads. That'll pick up your compression quite a bit and be a lot easier as far as an adjustable valve train. All they'll need is a set of studs, guide plates and rockers and you're good to go there... Usually you can find a set on fbook marketplace pretty easy...

 

[The Mad Porter]

I can only get builder flat tops in + .040" right now which is what you need for mid nines static with D3 heads.

That thumper cam has a good IE split but the lift is pathetic. Lobe sep is too tight and it WILL NOT work with a stock stall convertor. 2500 minimum.

Heads will need to be built. Hard exhaust seats, guides topped and PC seals. good springs and decked.

OEM rockers are fine so long as you sort out the proper push rod length which I outlined in the push rod length OEM rockers post below.






Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Parkland Auto Machine

 

[alabamaautoappraiser]

Easiest way to pick up compression and solve your valvetrain problem is to get a set of older heads. Find a set of D0VE heads. That'll pick up your compression quite a bit and be a lot easier as far as an adjustable valve train. All they'll need is a set of studs, guide plates and rockers and you're good to go there... Usually you can find a set on fbook marketplace pretty easy...

Thank you. I’ll start looking for the d0ve heads.

 

[alabamaautoappraiser]

So I pulled the engine today and have the numbers for the block and heads. It doesn’t appear to be anything special. I have attached the pics. I can’t tell if that’s a D3 or D8

 

[bob460]

Looks like D8 to me, BUT how did that not cause more damage, you got lucky!!

Cheers, Bob

 

[Paul Airola]

Hello everyone. First time post. I have a 1973 460 and it is backfiring when accelerating. I tried everything to fix the problem but it wouldn’t get any better. I noticed a lifter ticking on the #1 cylinder. I removed the valve cover and intake and one of the pushrods on #1 was very loose. I took both lifters out of #1 and one was shorter than the other. It appears the bottom of the lifter has worn away which is making it shorter. My question is, can I get by with replacing just the lifters or do I need to replace the camshaft as well? I’m just relieved I found out what was causing the backfire. What would you replace? All that metal had to go somewhere which has me concerned. Do you think the wear was caused by the camshaft? Thank you!

Update: After doing some research it looks like I will have to replace the camshaft and lifters. Luckily they come in a set. What camshaft would you recommend? I wouldn’t mind upgrading to another camshaft that will improve performance and give the engine that lope sound everybody seems to love. Would I need new rocker arms and springs? I honestly don’t know where to start. None of these camshaft specs make any sense to me. It’s like reading a different language. Again it’s a 1973 460 with a Holley 750 double pump, HEI distributor, Weiand Stealth intake, headers with flowmasters and everything else is stock. Thanks again for any advise.

Lifter is warn out

 

[William Roberts]

Hello everyone. First time post. I have a 1973 460 and it is backfiring when accelerating. I tried everything to fix the problem but it wouldn’t get any better. I noticed a lifter ticking on the #1 cylinder. I removed the valve cover and intake and one of the pushrods on #1 was very loose. I took both lifters out of #1 and one was shorter than the other. It appears the bottom of the lifter has worn away which is making it shorter. My question is, can I get by with replacing just the lifters or do I need to replace the camshaft as well? I’m just relieved I found out what was causing the backfire. What would you replace? All that metal had to go somewhere which has me concerned. Do you think the wear was caused by the camshaft? Thank you!

Update: After doing some research it looks like I will have to replace the camshaft and lifters. Luckily they come in a set. What camshaft would you recommend? I wouldn’t mind upgrading to another camshaft that will improve performance and give the engine that lope sound everybody seems to love. Would I need new rocker arms and springs? I honestly don’t know where to start. None of these camshaft specs make any sense to me. It’s like reading a different language. Again it’s a 1973 460 with a Holley 750 double pump, HEI distributor, Weiand Stealth intake, headers with flowmasters and everything else is stock. Thanks again for any advise.

Magnetic oil drain plugs are available online to attract metal shavings in the oil.I've only recently heard of them.I'm not sure how effective they are. There are also magnetic straps for the oil filter.You would have to cut the filter open afterwards to see if there were any metal inside it.

 

[Paul Airola]

Magnetic oil drain plugs are available online to attract metal shavings in the oil.I've only recently heard of them.I'm not sure how effective they are. There are also magnetic straps for the oil filter.You would have to cut the filter open afterwards to see if there were any metal inside it.

I thought warn lifters were common, along with warn cam lobes was also common.

 

[techinspector2]

Lifters are not a wear item in an internal combustion engine. Neither are cam lobes. In today's world, it makes no sense at all to install a flat tappet camshaft in ANY engine. If roller tappet camshafts are not affordable to you, then DO NOT FIDDLE WITH YOUR ENGINE OR ANYONE ELSE'S ENGINE. FIND ANOTHER HOBBY.