1966 Fairlane With 502

1032 Views 32 Replies 11 Participants Last post by 19Fo79rdF250$, 5 d ago

john48404way

Discussion Starter · 13 d ago

3

Installed a ATK 502 525 HP engine in the Fairlane. Had some over heating problems at 1st......fixed that with 2 elec fans and water pump fan.......... Now seems not to be producing 525 HP. Should be a screamer but not living up to ATKs HP claim ?

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The Mad Porter

· #2 · 13 d ago

john48404way said:
Installed a ATK 502 525 HP engine in the Fairlane. Had some over heating problems at 1st......fixed that with 2 elec fans and water pump fan.......... Now seems not to be producing 525 HP. Should be a screamer but not living up to ATKs HP claim ?

Cylinder head type?
Total ignition timing?

AF ratio?

Improper tuning has disappointed more than a few engine owners.

Down on power since running hot?

How hot?

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Parkland Auto Machine

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john48404way

Discussion Starter · #3 · 13 d ago

Never over 225 and when it hit that was shut down... added fans and now never over 200. Timing at 20. Edelbrock heads. AF unknown. No smoking..... Runs smooth. Just not a screamer.

wickettoby1

· #4 · 12 d ago

Timing locked out at 20 deg?

john48404way

Discussion Starter · #5 · 12 d ago

Initial timing is 22 deg have moved it up and down. Has MSD ign. Holly 780 that has been tuned.

The Mad Porter

· #6 · 12 d ago

john48404way said:
Initial timing is 22 deg have moved it up and down. Has MSD ign. Holly 780 that has been tuned.

Eddy heads typically need about 34 to 36* total timing.

Eddy valve springs for the flat tappet cams are inadequate and the engine starts to hit a brick wall.

You'd make 5% more power if you could get your running temps down to 160f

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Parkland Auto Machine

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dacofa

· #7 · 12 d ago

Carb should be at least a 850 Holley for street,950 for higher HP/TQ, that's probably costing you 25HP right there. More user friendly on the street with smaller carbs, but HP/TQ suffers especially with heads/cam/intake and cubic inches. Like trying to suck air thru a small straw.
Lean engine will also generate lots of heat.

1972Mach1

· #8 · 12 d ago

My personal experience with ATK is that they almost always fall well short of their advertised HP/TQ numbers. I've helped two guys put their 347 "410 HP" engines in their cars, one a 4 speed Falcon and the other a Fairlane. Both were disappointing to say the least even after a few months of tuning on them, and when we dyno'd the Falcon we found out why: it put out a touch over 220 HP at the wheels through the manual trans....your 502, if it's the "515 HP" only has a hydraulic flat tappet with 225/235 @050 .536in/.541ex on a 112LSA. Pretty small, and along with that carb, and depending on your headers and intake, isn't going to be a real ripper on the top, but it'd be great in a F100 or the like. The base of the engine is good, just needs some stuff changed out in the way of a custom cam/intake/carb swap, and a good set of 1 7/8"-2" primary headers.

john48404way

Discussion Starter · #9 · 12 d ago

Engine now is running 170 Carb is 850 Holly miss spoke earlier. Eddy springs are not good ? Humm.

1972Mach1 said:
My personal experience with ATK is that they almost always fall well short of their advertised HP/TQ numbers. I've helped two guys put their 347 "410 HP" engines in their cars, one a 4 speed Falcon and the other a Fairlane. Both were disappointing to say the least even after a few months of tuning on them, and when we dyno'd the Falcon we found out why: it put out a touch over 220 HP at the wheels through the manual trans....your 502, if it's the "515 HP" only has a hydraulic flat tappet with 225/235 @050 .536in/.541ex on a 112LSA. Pretty small, and along with that carb, and depending on your headers and intake, isn't going to be a real ripper on the top, but it'd be great in a F100 or the like. The base of the engine is good, just needs some stuff changed out in the way of a custom cam/intake/carb swap, and a good set of 1 7/8"-2" primary headers.

The scoop. I did buy the 545 engine and talking with others was convinced the cam might be too much for street use and would have little or no vacuum. Talked to ATK and they agreed. ATK advised the only difference in the two engines was the cam. The 545 version has a Comp cam 253 253 with 585 585 lift... the 515 engine has a Howards cam 225/225 and 536/541 lift..........I made the cam swap. Now running the Howards cam.
Do have nice 2" headers.
Not a screamer by any means.

The Mad Porter

· #10 · 12 d ago

john48404way said:
Engine now is running 170 Carb is 850 Holly miss spoke earlier. Eddy springs are not good ? Humm.

The scoop. I did buy the 545 engine and talking with others was convinced the cam might be too much for street use and would have little or no vacuum. Talked to ATK and they agreed. ATK advised the only difference in the two engines was the cam. The 545 version has a Comp cam 253 253 with 585 585 lift... the 515 engine has a Howards cam 225/225 and 536/541 lift..........I made the cam swap. Now running the Howards cam.
Do have nice 2" headers.
Not a screamer by any means.

You would think that ATK would know better than to use a single pattern cam especially with any iron head and most aluminum castings.

Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Parkland Auto Machine

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Reactions: 2

PSIG

· #11 · 12 d ago (Edited)

+1, get your total timing right. You can mess with the less-important idle timing after.

Sounds like you have some tuning to do. Whatever it will give, it won't do it until everything is tuned.

You solved your cooling, but your flex fan is too small for the shroud. A 7-blade paddle-blade fan of proper size will pull much more. Use it with a clutch (with coil spring on the face) if you have room.

mjlangley

· #12 · 12 d ago

What he said....

If your initial timing is 22* what is the total? Do you know what your advance curve in the distributor looks like?

john48404way

Discussion Starter · #13 · 12 d ago

We reset the initial to 30* I do not know what the total advance is Its Ignition system is MSD.
Runs about the same. Getting some dieseling or run on when shut down.

john48404way

Discussion Starter · #14 · 12 d ago

PSIG said:
+1, get your total timing right. You can mess with the less-important idle timing after.

Sounds like you have some tuning to do. Whatever it will give, it won't do it until everything is tuned.

You solved your cooling, but your flex fan is too small for the shroud. A 7-blade paddle-blade fan of proper size will pull much more. Use it with a clutch (with coil spring on the face) if you have room.

Not a lot of room for larger fan. Bottom of the shroud fan almost touches. Im very disappointed in the ATK engine. Its not making anywhere near to 515 HP.

Tommy222

· #15 · 11 d ago

I bought the same engine for my LTD. Still not installed yet, but I bought the fully dressed version, so it came dyno tested. The Dyno sheet was packed with the engine.

1972Mach1

· #16 · 11 d ago

They can fudge dyno numbers any way they want to. We've got a diesel shop here that has a dyno days, and they refuse to let me run my Mach 1 at it because I'm sure it'll say I make over 800 lb-ft at the wheels when I know it makes a little under 750 at the crank and I've told them I suspect as much....their diesels all make "2000+" at the wheels according to their dyno, and yet they run mid-high 13s in the quarter.

Reactions: 2

Tommy222

· #17 · 11 d ago

Ah I see... Yes, I just wanted the piece of mind of knowing the engine was run tested at least. I'm not too concerned about exact HP, as long as it's fairly stout..

Reactions: 1

john48404way

Discussion Starter · #18 · 11 d ago

Tommy222 said:
I bought the same engine for my LTD. Still not installed yet, but I bought the fully dressed version, so it came dyno tested. The Dyno sheet was packed with the engine.

My engine was complete and dyno tested. Let me know how much power it makes.

Tommy222

· #19 · 11 d ago

john48404way said:
My engine was complete and dyno tested. Let me know how much power it makes.

Oh really... What did the dyno sheet show? I need to check mine. I'm not super experienced with building cars like this, so I'm hoping to be fairly satisfied, even if the numbers are inflated a bit.

Are you running an MSD ignition box (sorry, I see now that you are)? Good gas, clean filters, plugs, wires, etc? I'm sure you're 10 steps ahead of me, but just curious.

Did you have any issues with the CVF serpentine kit? I will be running it as well.

john48404way

Discussion Starter · #20 · 11 d ago

CVF worked great. Yes using a MSD box. I don't remember where the dyno sheet is and will look. Everything looks like the engine should be good but mine is low on HP.

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