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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone
I am brand-new to this forum, but I've been running a '69 Lincoln 460 in my '71 Mach I for 38 years.
There are not many other people running 460s in England. It's a great motor, but it does vibrate quite a lot.
I would like to hear from anyone who has fitted a Fluidampr harmonic balancer #720201 to one of these engines.
Specifically, will the Fluidampr work with the infamous crank-mounted power steering pump?
If not, does the Ford Motorsport harmonic balancer #M-6316-A460 work with the P/S pump?
Or do I have to reconfigure the whole front of the engine to get a decent modern damper?
Any advice would be gratefully received, before I lay out my hard-earned Dollars!
Thanks
 

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If you're changing dampers,everything must be changed,pulleys,brackets,water pump,timing cover,and the ps pump itself.You will then be using a longer water pump which probably will cause clearance problems with the radiator.I really doubt the damper is your vibration problem.I would be looking at the flywheel-flexplate on back first.
 

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If the engine is not missing then you had better check to see if the flexplate is weighted.

Has the engine ever been opened and overhauled?


SJ
used 2b RHP


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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the input, guys.
I've had the engine apart several times.
The flywheel was skimmed and balanced during the first rebuild in 1983.
The entire reciprocating assembly has been checked every time I have changed components.
I have had a LOT of trouble getting the timing right over the last few years, and I now know the outer ring of the original damper, which also drives the water pump and alternator, is moving around. Each time I check the timing marks against TDC established by the positive-stop method, the marks are in a different place (32 degrees out last time - advanced - next time it'll be somewhere else). If the rubber bond between the inner and outer elements of the damper are not properly attached, will it still be able to cancel out harmonic vibration? The vibration itself is not extreme, I just think it could be bettered.
 

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2nd that. Definitely replace your damper. Rebuilt units are available for the 68 and 69's.

SJ
used 2b RHP


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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you Thermod, Mad Porter and Mr O'Neal for the wise words.
So it seems the choice is pretty stark: all or nothing.
Am I reading that right? $495 + I have to fly my old damper over to the states - big bucks.
My sensible adult head is telling me to replace the stock damper. Simple and relatively economical.
My hot rodder's heart is saying, the hell with that, do something radical.
I'm going to go sit in the garage with a mug of tea and consider my options!
 

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Thank you Thermod, Mad Porter and Mr O'Neal for the wise words.
So it seems the choice is pretty stark: all or nothing.
Am I reading that right? $495 + I have to fly my old damper over to the states - big bucks.
My sensible adult head is telling me to replace the stock damper. Simple and relatively economical.
My hot rodder's heart is saying, the hell with that, do something radical.
I'm going to go sit in the garage with a mug of tea and consider my options!
We have several used C9 dampers here and can source a reman from our engine supply house. Might save a few pounds.


SJ
used 2b RHP
 

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Thank you Thermod, Mad Porter and Mr O'Neal for the wise words.
First...I know I'm 67, but I'm showing this to my dad.

Second.....as I see your combination the difference in performance between a stock replacement and a high dollar version is the price. You're falling victim to Mark's Second Law of Racer Economics……"Never spend ten dollars when ten-thousand will do."

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That's good. What is Mark's First Law of Racer Economics?

I would normally have taken a beer out to the garage, but it's 'dry January' according to little wifey.
With beer fuelling the decision-making process, I would probably be thinking:
Do away with the aged power steering completely and replace it with a Volvo 240 manual rack and pinion gear.
Change the fragile steering column, which is a valuable tilt-away unit from a '68 Cougar, for a stronger modern one.
Change the timing cover and fit the spacer sleeve thing and then I could have any damper I like.
Fit a Davies Craig 150L/min electric coolant pump at the radiator outlet and connect it, via a relay, to the same thermostatic control module that operates the twin electric fans. Delete the traditional thermostat.
Get rid of the Weiand water pump, Flex-a-Lite fan and its steel shroud and fabricate an aluminium plate in its place, with two -12 AN hose fittings welded over the water passages and connect it all up with nice shiny Speedflow braided hoses and anodised fittings. a March pulley to turn the alternator and I'd be all set. It would be a fun project to do over the Winter (along with fixing all my oil leaks), shed a load of weight from over the front wheels and even free up a few horsepower, and it definitely meets the criteria of Mark's Second Law. I already broke that a few times.

As it is, drinking tea all the time, It seems prudent to just replace the thing like for like. Thanks for the offer to source a re-manufactured C9 damper Scotty J . I have a guy here who expedites stuff from the US for me. If I decided to go that route, could you get the damper delivered to his place in Boston? How would I pay you?

Midnight here now, time for bed. There is one thing that bothers me, though. How can it be an efficient damper and a pulley at the same time?
Cheers for the help
Martin
 

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I hear you,maquone,but those old cs driven pumps are kinda cool and always a topic of conversation when you raise the hood.Not too many guys know what they are.Everybody knows what the new stuff is.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That's what I do like about it - it's invisible - and I tell people wicked little lies about the fluid reservoir, which I made out of a bicycle drinks bottle, being a swirl pot for the fuel. Spits out its O-ring seal occasionally, though, a sort of natural rev-limiter!
 

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We are a licensed business and can drop ship anywhere. CC via phone. I will get a cost later this afternoon and see if we can help you out.

I have one in Denver that can drop ship. We have a core here

Email me [email protected] if we can be of assistance.



SJ
used 2b RHP


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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks very much for that.
I still can't make my mind up which way to go, so I'm stripping the front of the motor to do all the winter-time routine cleaning/checking, to see if I find anything that might influence the decision. Radiator is in good shape. Oil filter and coolant filter are both nice and clear, so off to a good start. The ATF in the power steering looks pretty tired.

Meanwhile, I've become distracted by a new exhaust cut-out design I like.
Anybody seen these? Perhaps this should be a new thread?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Update:
It's been a bit cold in the garage, so progress has been slow.
All the components in the upper part of the valvetrain checked out OK.
Cam profiles are good. All the trunnion, roller-tip and lifter roller bearings are good. The push rods are all straight. The valve lash was still where I set it last time - 150 miles ago. I am convinced the vibration I can feel is not coming from anything in the valvetrain. Going to check the sprockets, chain and thrust-bearing when I get the water pump/timing cover off. Can't feel my fingers now so I'll do that another day. With the radiator out, I can now see the damper and P/S pump more clearly. That gold mark on the damper/pulley assembly is TDC and the white mark above it is 10° BTDC. You can't see the tip if the pointer in the picture, but you get the idea. That's gotta be at least 40° out.




91111
91112
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well, didn't expect that.
Despite being torqued to 90 foot-pounds the old damper was not fully seated on the crankshaft.
That is close to 0.40" off. Could that have caused the damper bonding to fail?
And yes, I do realise that, if I had used the proper installation tool instead of the bolt/washer, I would have noticed this before. Heigh-ho - you live and learn!
91119
 

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Did you shear the key?

SJ
 
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