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Discussion Starter #22
One beat-up woodruff key. Looks like I did it twice! Must try harder next time.
The question remains, though, could the improper seating of the damper cause it to fail?
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If the damper was so snug on the crank snout that you could not seat it against the lower timing gear I'd say no.


SJ
used 2b RHP


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Discussion Starter #24
Yeah, Scotty, that's my feeling as well.
The funny thing is, the damper doesn't look too bad. Some radial cracks in the rubber and bulges in two places, on the same side.Nowhere near as bad as some I've seen.
I can't get it to turn on the bench, but maybe I could have when I was 25!
There's a guy here who has a stock replacement damper from Australia.
It's supposed to fit right and I should get it on Monday.
We shall see.
 

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The damper fits up to the pump hub which fits up to the crank sprocket..are the sprocket and pump hub on the same key or is the damper and pump hub on the same key? I should know this but it's been a while.Anyway,if the damper rubber is still tight and hasn't slipped,then you must not have engaged the key with the damper since your timing marks are off.You might have pulled the damper up to the pump hub key and stopped,The pulleys had to have been misaligned.How did the belts fit?....or all this could be wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
The crank Sprocket and the pump drive are on the same key. The damper is on a smaller key and should fit against the pump hub. There are no signs on the crankshaft snout that the damper hub was rotating on it, and the damper being just under four-tenths off suggests to me the damper and key were at least partially engaged. The hub was gripping on something, because I could turn the motor with the bolt, against the compression, in both directions. There are two grooves in the crank pulley. I use an aftermarket water pump and the alternator is from a Ford Scorpio. The Lincoln water pump pulley has three grooves and the alternator has only one groove. I made it all fit together. I put the manifold back on today and rebuilt the carburettor, so if this thing comes tomorrow and fits, I'll put it on. If not, I might put the old one on an try to test Thermod's theory. Thanks for the input.
 

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I see that you mentioned a Weiand water pump earlier.None of the Lincoln pulleys should have worked with that pump.I suspect that the damper riding out .4 allowed the use of the wrong groove on the crank so the belt lined up.You might try this to retain the Lincoln ps pump and Weiand wp.The pump hub is about 1/4 in longer than a later spacer.Get a cheap conventional damper and see if milling 1/4 off the snout would cause interference with the pump body and the damper.If not,any later model crank and wp pulleys should work.The 1/4 in mentioned is an approximation,pump hub must be measured.Just throwing this out at you,haven't tried it myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Interesting. It is so long ago, I don't remember what I did. There is a valve-spring shim behind the pulley which has P/N C9AE-8509-E. A mighty impressive thing - made in two pieces, spot welded together and balanced! I had it chromed. I have also considered the possibility of milling things to fit, if necessary. The replacement damper did not turn up today.

Looking at the picture, I've got the rear groove in the w/p pulley aligned with the front groove in the c/s pulley. So. obviously, if I got the stock damper seated properly, the grooves would not line up. I'm beginning to wish I'd left it alone now. Ignorance is bliss. Until the crank breaks, of course.
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Discussion Starter #29
Well, the new damper came. It had 'big ford' handwritten on the box, but it was the other 'big' ford.
A 390 cid FE motor, it turned out. So I sent my damper/pulley to a local machinist's shop to be evaluated and they could find no fault with it!
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Got fed up with the head-scratching, so I left it alone for a while. I have now refitted the original damper. I put some Plasticine around the hub of the P/S pump and torqued the bolt to 90 ft-lbs, being careful to see the woodruff key was properly aligned. Removed the bolt and the empty space was still there, but originally it was 0.396" deep, now it was 0.256" - that's only about 1½ tenths further on than before. Pulled the damper off again and that Plasticine was solid gone! So the damper hub and the P/S pump drive hub were butted tightly together. The timing cover is the right one, the pump bolts are the right ones. The pump is securely seated on the cover, so that must be the way it left the factory? More head scratching. Obviously, something was badly out of whack before I took it apart. Also, none of the pulleys line up properly now. Hobbies are supposed top be fun - aren't they?
 

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Thanks for the input, guys.
I've had the engine apart several times.
The flywheel was skimmed and balanced during the first rebuild in 1983.
The entire reciprocating assembly has been checked every time I have changed components.
I have had a LOT of trouble getting the timing right over the last few years, and I now know the outer ring of the original damper, which also drives the water pump and alternator, is moving around. Each time I check the timing marks against TDC established by the positive-stop method, the marks are in a different place (32 degrees out last time - advanced - next time it'll be somewhere else). If the rubber bond between the inner and outer elements of the damper are not properly attached, will it still be able to cancel out harmonic vibration? The vibration itself is not extreme, I just think it could be bettered.
being a 69 the flexplate should not have a weight on it,nor should the dampner have a weight behind it
 

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I'm afraid if you want that ps pump to work you will have to get the short wp and all the pulleys and brackets off the Lincoln.That stuff is out there as people routinely remove it for the more conventional later parts. Finding it is a different story.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Yes sir, that's right. There is no balance weight associated with the damper. The flywheel from the original 429CJ was balanced from the factory. There is a weight welded to it and also a couple of holes drilled into it. I had it skimmed and checked - all OK. However, when I had the 390 damper here, I noticed an interesting coincidence. The steel pulley bolted to it had three fasteners, not the four I would have expected. When I looked at my damper, it too had three holes with threads tapped into the cast hub. When I measured them up, both were on a 3" PCD. So, I ordered a March pulley for a 390FE from the Summit and it is down here now. A thing of great beauty, but not for long, and the bolt holes line up perfectly. In addition, the central hole in the March pulley is an exact match for the outside diameter of the washer on the crankshaft damper bolt - excellent work by Henry, or perhaps it was Edsel. Whichever, I reckon I can make this under-drive pulley work with my other bits. And it looks like I am going to have some extra spare time to do the job. England is closing down.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Got it all back together yesterday. Had to put a 3mm nylon shim between the the water-pump and the pulley. Also a 9mm nylon spacer between the damper and the new March pulley. The alternator had to come forward about ¾ of an inch using nylon spacers with brass sleeves for support. Scrounged a shorter fan belt from a neighbour. All looked good, so primed the carburettor ready to start it, but fuel leaking out of a pipe in the engine bay. It was an older pipe from Earls - had it years, but this new ethanol-additive fuel is eating up the older stuff on the car. Changed it out for a new length of pipe from Speedflow. Gave it a squirt of ether and it started right up. Ran it for a couple minutes on the choke. Alternator, P/S pump and water pump/fan etc. seemed OK, Belt stayed on, perhaps a little loose. Had to shut it off before it got warmed up because fuel was leaking from the back of the car. Turned out to be the rubber gasket in one of the Holley red pumps. Got to wait for the new gaskets (might as well do both of them). Getting there.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Ran it again today with the leaky pump. Fan belt stayed on up to 3500 RPM - no noticeable wobbles.
I reckon this would work on any mild 429/460. Time for a proper road test.
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