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429 intake manifold?
November 10 2000 at 6:49 PM
No score for this post David Kee (no login)
from IP address 24.162.162.147

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Who makes an open plenum intake for a small port 429 head (DOVE C)?

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Anonymous
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63.25.254.208 Several choices
No score for this post November 11 2000, 1:25 AM

If my memory serves me right... Starting with the mildest... Edelbrock Torqer, Offenhauser(spelling?)Port-O-Sonic, and I beleive there is a Victor available with small ports, but not shure.
Personally, I like the upper-end dual plane designs for everything except the most radical big blocks... Edelbrock Performer RPM, and my favorite is the Weiand Stealth... available for both small and large port heads.
The desk-top-dyno shows a large gain using a single plane intake on every engine combo, but I think it is not accurate information because of the superior 2-plane designs available now.
I hope this is of some help.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 Several Choices
No score for this post November 11 2000, 9:52 PM

I checked out the Victor specs on the Edelbrock website. It looks like it comes with the small ports and has enough material to open it to the larger ports. The Victor manifolds never let me down yet, so it looks like that's the one.

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alvin
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24.11.186.48 Intake manifold
No score for this post November 12 2000, 8:54 PM

The 460 Victor intake that you mentioned doesn't align with the DOVE-C ports correctly without porting. I have ported a few sets of heads to match the Victor intakes but I really recommend the Weiand Stealth for all but the most radical big blocks.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 help define radical
No score for this post November 13 2000, 10:51 AM

Here's the motor - 429, 11.1 compression, Dove C heads that flow 300 int. 200 exh., flat tappet cam w/589 lift and 250ish duration, in 4 speed car.

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RJP
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205.188.193.159 I would consider that a mild engine.
No score for this post November 13 2000, 12:05 PM

Try a manifold with slightly smaller runners such as a Edel. Preformer rpm. The 429 isn't a big motor by todays standards and too big a manifold [runners and/or plenium] will hurt low end. The Stealth and BT have larger runner voluume and were designed more for the 460 and bigger engines. A radical engine would have over 12 to 1 compresson a cam in the 275-280 deg @ .050" with .700" or more lift and a set of heads to use the cam. Anything of this caliber will need at least a 1050 Holley Dom. or more and a exhaust system to make it all work. Something like this should make power to 7200-7500 rpm so a bullit proof valve train would be mandantory.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 desktop dyno?
No score for this post November 13 2000, 12:28 PM

I agree that this is a mild motor. It seems strange that if you change to an open plenum on Desktop Dyno it adds like 50hp. I understand the importance fo keeping the runners small, but was afraid of the dual plane not producing the best results. This car will be used for 99% 1/4 mile racing. I guess it would be better to try something smaller at first rather than something way too big. I was planning on using a Holley 800 double pumper, any thoughts there.

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alvin
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24.11.186.48 Desktop dyno
No score for this post November 13 2000, 12:51 PM

The Desktop Dyno is a very helpful tool. Using it, I always check out potential combos. But it does make some assumptions and those assumptions are not always correct. On one DOVE headed 429 that we built, we gained 4 tenths from swithing from the Stealth and 850 to a Victor with a 1050 Dominator.

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RJP
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152.163.204.77 Mostly strip use?
No score for this post November 13 2000, 3:26 PM

If you are not going to use this on the street much then I'd go with what ever gives you the most top end you'll need for strip use. a small runner Vic. manifold and at least a 850 Holley, maybe even a 1050 Dom. Plan on spinning the engine to make this combo work. With regards to the DTD, look where it makes the peak HP, prob. above 6500 rpm. The DTD is a good tool to compare different parts but don't put complete faith into the results, use it for guidelines only.

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RJP
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152.163.204.77 Forgot to ask..
No score for this post November 13 2000, 3:40 PM

For 99% strip use you didn't say what car this is in and the weight. Other things we need to know is rear end gear ratio, tire you intend to run, exhaust, ignition, trans gear ratios and several other things I'm forgetting for now. I was assuming by the other post you were using this on the street with little or no strip use.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 more details
No score for this post November 13 2000, 4:39 PM

The car will be 69 Falcon, I'm guessing 3300?pounds with the big block. Wide ratio 4 speed toploader (of course), McLeod adjustable clutch.
I used desktop dragstrip with a 26" tire (plan on DOT M/T streets) with average track conditions and 3.50 gears. It came back with an astonishing 10.50 at 129 mph. I'm not going to hold my breath.

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RJP
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152.163.197.183 I'll stick with my recommendation of...
No score for this post November 13 2000, 8:36 PM

The Victor manifold for the small port head. Do a port match to the manifold before you install it. I'd run a 4781 Holley [850 d.p.]and as much open spacer as the hood will allow with this combo. The 10.50 is assuming traction is perfect [it never is] and everything else is perfect including air and humidity, like thats ever going to happen. How did you get those heads to flow 300 cfm/in. 200 cfm/ex.? Its tough to get iron CJs to flow that much.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 head flow
No score for this post November 13 2000, 10:35 PM

Victor Jr. it is then. I will definitely have the intake port matched.
The heads were ported and flow tested, that's the numbers I was provided with. I'll have to see what the lift was to get that number. We'll see if the numbers are true or not.
As the progress continues I will more than likely add a page with pictures to my toploader site dedicated to how this car started and ends up. This will be very interesting. I just received subframe connectors from Crites today.
Thanks for all the advice, I'm glad there are people out there willing to share their experience.

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Mike R.
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32.97.239.27 Neat project car
No score for this post November 14 2000, 7:52 AM

Hey David, I think this is going to be a fun project for you. I have a 70 torino cobra street car that's fairly similar (except it's 4000#)that ran 11.71 @118 last time out in full street trim with the MT ET street tires. I know your company specializes in toploaders so I wanted to mention that I switched from a large input close ratio toploader to a large input wide ratio top loader this summer and dropped about .4 off my ET. Also you're right you will never be below 4500 RPM so you really don't have to worry about low end torque so much.

I would also recommend the Victor intake (even though I am currently running a Ford Power Parts dual plane). These engines seem to love alot of carburation. I run a 1050 dominator on mine and I would recommend at least a 950 if you're going to be doing alot of racing. At one point I put a tunnel ram with two 850 holleys on mine and you would not believe how much faster it was than the dual plane. So my view for your setup is if you have no restrictions such as hood clearance run the largest, highest RPM intake you can get (Victor) and the biggest carb you can.

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Bob M
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63.25.255.18 850dp or bigger for shure....
No score for this post November 14 2000, 12:26 AM

I ran a 800dp on a stock intake on a stock 429 w dove heads in a truck w stock converter and it wasn't too big, so you need at least an 850, or bigger...maybe 900-1000cfm demon or holley hp. I'd go with the small victor with a 4-speed or a stealth with an automatic considering your application.
I agree that the desktop dyno over-estimates the advantage of using a single plane intake.
Good Luck !

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rh
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63.225.203.170 Flow Numbers
No score for this post November 18 2000, 2:23 AM

300 & 200 @ 28" of h20 is easily obtainable even with the D3VE Heads & you end up with a lot better velocity & thats with out touching the port openings! rh
I ran a 9.5 to 1 460 with these heads & made 600lb ft of torque under 3000rpm. engine was in a 77 F-150 rh

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Rick
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208.136.201.2 lower gear would be quicker
No score for this post November 14 2000, 1:33 PM

I would use a 4.30 gear with your set up,if I was mainly racing if weekend street was in mind than a 4.11 would be the gear.Your choice a 4.30 would be much better reaction time very quick shifts good luck

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 more gear
No score for this post November 14 2000, 3:20 PM

On the desk top Dragstrip the rpm with a 26" tire and 3.50 gear it was right at 6000rpm at the end. More gear slowed it down. The determining factor will be at the track. We are also considering a 28" tire, that will definitaly need more gear.

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Mike R.
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4.54.233.68 I agree that you will need more gear
No score for this post November 14 2000, 6:30 PM

I think that 3.50 is just going to be a little too high to get your best launch with a fairly heavy car. My car which is set up pretty much identical to to yours does better and better with lower gears, just because the launch is so much better with the lower gear. Your gearing now (even with the wide ratio figured in) is right on the edge where it's going to be pretty tough to launch. Also you will probably not be near your peak RPM at the finish line. If you're were doing 6000 RPM at the finish line you're doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 133-134 MPH and I think that's expecting an awful lot. I think 115 MPH is going to be alot more realistic of a starting point. I think what you'll find in reality is that about a 4.11 is going to be more in the ballpark of what will get you a good launch without ripping the clutch and rearend out of the car. The lower gears will help you out alot as far as dependability is concerned.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 tire size
No score for this post November 14 2000, 7:59 PM

How tall are the tires on your car? Do you have an adjustable pressure clutch? The adjustable clutch will take away allot of the violence off the line.

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Mike R.
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4.4.235.184 tire size
No score for this post November 14 2000, 10:27 PM

My tires are 28" tall and I realize that yours will be 26" tall, but I always figure that into the equation when I'm figuring the overall ratio for first gear which includes first gear ratio, rearend gear ratio, and tire size. With all of your information taken into account I still believe you will launch better with a little lower gear. I'm not saying that you will absolutely not be able to launch. I'm just saying that I've run an almost identical final first gear ratio and it was not the best set-up for launching. It would go about a 1.76 60 ft. at best and was inconsistent to try to launch where a ratio that a 4.11 to a 4.30 would get you would pull consistently around 1.70 60 ft times. My problem with the clutch has not really been violence off the line it's been that when you have a heavy car, a high gear, and quite a bit of power and traction with a 4 speed, something has to give so it usually seems to be a bog or a burned clutch. I'm just trying to tell you what I've experienced with my car. Will it be slow with a 3.50, absolutely not. But my real life guesstimate is .15 to .20 seconds quicker with a 4.11 to 4.30. If you like a 3.50 for streetability I definately can't blame you there, but if 1/4 mile quickness is what you're after lower is better.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 very true
No score for this post November 15 2000, 12:08 AM

You are absolutely correct. I just hate to run out of motor before the end of the track. It's a terrible feeling.

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Mike R.
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32.97.239.16 very true
No score for this post November 15 2000, 7:48 AM

Yeah, I guess when it comes down to all you can do is go out and try it and find out your MPH and RPMs at the finish line. Then you can really fine tune your gearing from there. I like for mine to be geared so that it hits it's peak at the finish line which for mine is more around 6500 RPM. I'll bet you'll be glad to get it out there and run it and see what it does. I hadn't raced mine for 8 years and just took it back to the strip this summer. I felt like a teenager out there. It was really alot of fun. The neat thing is that getting out on the track really makes your weak points stand out so you can figure out what you need to improve pretty quickly and eliminate the guesswork. Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 DTD numbers
No score for this post November 13 2000, 4:32 PM

DTD says 539 hp at 6000 and it drops off from there. Also 527 ft-lbs. at 4500 and it also drops from there. This is with the dual plane intake, 800 cfm and small tube headers with open exhaust.
With the single-plane intake it jumps to 577 hp at 6000 and 447 ft-lbs. at 5000.
I plan to launch between 5 and 6000, and the rpm should not drop below 4500.
This is why I thought the Victor would be better.

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alvin
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24.11.186.48 Untitled
No score for this post November 13 2000, 12:40 PM

I'd have to agree in defining your 429 as "fairly mild", but we built a similar engine for a 77 short bed F-100 that weighed nearly 4000 pounds. Using the Stealth and an 850 cfm Holley, we ran 12.40s. However, we did not try the Performer RPM.

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David Kee
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24.162.162.147 help define radical
No score for this post November 13 2000, 10:52 AM

Here's the motor - 429, 11.1 compression, Dove C heads that flow 300 int. 200 exh., flat tappet cam w/589 lift and 250ish duration, in 4 speed car.

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Rick
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208.136.201.2 Top Fueler burning tires at 150 mph {lol]
No score for this post November 15 2000, 9:56 AM

Would radical fit or awesome.Ground shaking heart pounding tire burning 310 m/h.That is radical all else is back yard fun good luck sounds like a loper to me even at 2000 rpms where power should take off and end about 6500-7000 rpms with good springs big exaust a lot of pocket porting.And 850-900 cfms all that flow should give a lot on top end with enough fuel 500 hp {guess} Will run well through 1/4.That low duration will keep compression write where you want it.Say good bye to pump gas unless mixed 50/50 or so.Sounds like a good build what cam are you using with that low of duration {roller}.wa...wa...wa..wa...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa chirp waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa chirp waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa bye bye
 
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