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I have a friend that is currently building up a 460 to put in a '75 F-250 4x4 Crewcab. Here are the vitals:
9.44:1 compression ratio, Ross forged pistons
bored .030" over
Weiand Stealth Intake
'68 429 heads--75cc chamber
SS 2.19" dia intake, SS 1.7?" dia exhaust
port work includes removing exhaust hump and port matching the intake manifold and heads to the intake gasket. Port matching the exhaust port to the exhaust gaskets. Bowl work to improve flow.
L&L headers.
Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb.
Camshaft: Crower, Part Number 22240, 215(In)/221(Ex) duration at .050", and 0.527"(In), .535"(Ex) lift.
Hopefully, by next week, he will have it on an engine dyno to break it in and provide some horsepower numbers.
I am very curious about the results as I have a very similar engine I am building now. However, I'm not going to spend the bucks to have it dyno'd.
I'll let you know what happens when I hear about the results.
Todd
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Chris C
(no login)
152.163.207.207 buildup
No score for this post October 27 2000, 2:05 PM
That's almost exactly the setup I'd use for a heavy 4x4. I have a '76 F250 now with an Edelbrock headed 390, it does pretty well but it's still just too small to move the 5500lbs. with 38" tires. Keep us posted, I'd love to hear what kind of numbers it cranks out.
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IdahoCrewCab
(no login)
144.78.1.254 460 buildup
No score for this post October 27 2000, 2:46 PM
I hope it runs hard enough to put a smile on my face! My engine will be a little different, but not much, little different cam, and I'm only increasing the diameter of the exhaust valve. I'm not convinced that, for my application, installing a bigger intake valve helps that much. Those heads are restrictive on the exhaust side, but the intake works well with the stock valve size. He has flow data from the heads, and I was a little dissapointed when I saw the exhaust flow values. I forgot to mention earlier that he also has Crower Roller Rockers. Cool.
What would you do differently?
Todd
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Chris C
(no login)
152.163.207.214 Buildup
No score for this post October 29 2000, 11:18 AM
I agree with you on the heads. I just dug out all my articles, I'll be posting them as I get them scanned in. A stock DOVE head only flows 53% exhaust to intake ratio, about 20% too low. Through heavy porting it can be brought up to 60% if the intake is left absolutely stock. From what I've heard, there's no reason to go with a larger exhaust valve because the runner is just too small to support it. By the way, CJ exhaust valves are 1.75", probably what your buddy is running. Anyway, even the CJ heads have the miserable exhaust port, this is basically the area that the Ford and Blue Thunder aluminum heads address in their versions. Other than that, I'd run a roller cam, they just make a ton more power at the same level of driveability. I know they're $$$, but I'm a big fan of picking up all that power with no drawbacks.
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IdahoCrewCab
(no login)
144.78.1.254 460 buildup
No score for this post October 30 2000, 11:04 AM
Thanks for your input. I have never heard or read anything about the exhaust port being too small to support the larger exhaust valve. I hadn't even thought about that. But, I'd believe it. The exhaust ports are quite small for such a big engine. At any rate, the exhaust valve is already in.
I also agree with you on the roller cam. Roller cams make better torque and power and do that with less friction. But, they do cost more, and I just didn't want to spend the extra money on the 460. I'll save the roller cam route for my stroked 427 that I'm putting in my '69 Mustang.
Todd
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Chris C
(no login)
208.6.240.153 Buildup
No score for this post October 30 2000, 2:32 PM
Yeah, a roller setup is overkill for many street engines. With that in mind, I'd find someone (or you if you're experienced) to give the exhaust a full port. You don't have to worry so much about over-porting it because it's way too small to begin with, it needs to be opened up.
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Steve
(no login)
209.140.200.181 Street roller cam
No score for this post November 28 2000, 1:15 PM
Personally I would have agreed with this statement of 'roller cams being overkill for street engines' a long time ago, but no way these days. Of all the theories behind cam timing and lift profiles, and there are many, they say lift (independant of valve timing) means power. If you can get .630-.670 lift with under 250 deg dur at .050, you will absolutely kick *** on street. The only way to get these aggressive lobe profiles to work is with a roller...Comp Cam extreme series are a perfect example...win-win all thru RPM range. Ultradyne also makes (2) very nice 460 street rollers...
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460 tom
(no login)
63.28.78.54 nice build-up
No score for this post October 28 2000, 12:54 AM
SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT BUILD UP . I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A STAB AT THE NUMBERS. AFTER SEVERAL HOURS OF BREAK IN.. ALL TUNING AND JETTING DONE. MY GUESS IS 490 FT LBS AT 3600 RPM AND 430 HP AT 5500 ..BE SURE TO POST ALL INFO ON YOUR DYNO RUN. BE SURE TO CHANGE THE MOTOR OIL AND FILTER AFTER THE FIRST 30 MIN RUN. KEEP US POSTED........
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IdahoCrewCab
(no login)
144.78.1.254 460 buildup
Score 5.0 (1 person) October 30 2000, 11:15 AM
My guess would be similar to that also.
I talked to my friend this weekend and he now he's thinking that he doesn't want to put his engine on the dyno. Of course I did everything I could to convince him to dyno the engine. It's the same old story. He's starting to run low on money and isn't sure that it's worth the money to have the engine dyno'd. His engine should be finished this week and maybe set up for the dyno by the weekend.
We'll just have to wait and see.
Todd
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Chris C
(no login)
208.6.240.153 My guess
No score for this post October 30 2000, 2:35 PM
Just for the record in case he does dyno it:
530 ftlbs at 4300rpm
455 hp at 5300rpm
Later on this week I'll cheat and put the combo. in my desktop dyno, see how close that comes.
9.44:1 compression ratio, Ross forged pistons
bored .030" over
Weiand Stealth Intake
'68 429 heads--75cc chamber
SS 2.19" dia intake, SS 1.7?" dia exhaust
port work includes removing exhaust hump and port matching the intake manifold and heads to the intake gasket. Port matching the exhaust port to the exhaust gaskets. Bowl work to improve flow.
L&L headers.
Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb.
Camshaft: Crower, Part Number 22240, 215(In)/221(Ex) duration at .050", and 0.527"(In), .535"(Ex) lift.
Hopefully, by next week, he will have it on an engine dyno to break it in and provide some horsepower numbers.
I am very curious about the results as I have a very similar engine I am building now. However, I'm not going to spend the bucks to have it dyno'd.
I'll let you know what happens when I hear about the results.
Todd
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Author Reply
Chris C
(no login)
152.163.207.207 buildup
No score for this post October 27 2000, 2:05 PM
That's almost exactly the setup I'd use for a heavy 4x4. I have a '76 F250 now with an Edelbrock headed 390, it does pretty well but it's still just too small to move the 5500lbs. with 38" tires. Keep us posted, I'd love to hear what kind of numbers it cranks out.
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
IdahoCrewCab
(no login)
144.78.1.254 460 buildup
No score for this post October 27 2000, 2:46 PM
I hope it runs hard enough to put a smile on my face! My engine will be a little different, but not much, little different cam, and I'm only increasing the diameter of the exhaust valve. I'm not convinced that, for my application, installing a bigger intake valve helps that much. Those heads are restrictive on the exhaust side, but the intake works well with the stock valve size. He has flow data from the heads, and I was a little dissapointed when I saw the exhaust flow values. I forgot to mention earlier that he also has Crower Roller Rockers. Cool.
What would you do differently?
Todd
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Chris C
(no login)
152.163.207.214 Buildup
No score for this post October 29 2000, 11:18 AM
I agree with you on the heads. I just dug out all my articles, I'll be posting them as I get them scanned in. A stock DOVE head only flows 53% exhaust to intake ratio, about 20% too low. Through heavy porting it can be brought up to 60% if the intake is left absolutely stock. From what I've heard, there's no reason to go with a larger exhaust valve because the runner is just too small to support it. By the way, CJ exhaust valves are 1.75", probably what your buddy is running. Anyway, even the CJ heads have the miserable exhaust port, this is basically the area that the Ford and Blue Thunder aluminum heads address in their versions. Other than that, I'd run a roller cam, they just make a ton more power at the same level of driveability. I know they're $$$, but I'm a big fan of picking up all that power with no drawbacks.
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
IdahoCrewCab
(no login)
144.78.1.254 460 buildup
No score for this post October 30 2000, 11:04 AM
Thanks for your input. I have never heard or read anything about the exhaust port being too small to support the larger exhaust valve. I hadn't even thought about that. But, I'd believe it. The exhaust ports are quite small for such a big engine. At any rate, the exhaust valve is already in.
I also agree with you on the roller cam. Roller cams make better torque and power and do that with less friction. But, they do cost more, and I just didn't want to spend the extra money on the 460. I'll save the roller cam route for my stroked 427 that I'm putting in my '69 Mustang.
Todd
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Chris C
(no login)
208.6.240.153 Buildup
No score for this post October 30 2000, 2:32 PM
Yeah, a roller setup is overkill for many street engines. With that in mind, I'd find someone (or you if you're experienced) to give the exhaust a full port. You don't have to worry so much about over-porting it because it's way too small to begin with, it needs to be opened up.
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Steve
(no login)
209.140.200.181 Street roller cam
No score for this post November 28 2000, 1:15 PM
Personally I would have agreed with this statement of 'roller cams being overkill for street engines' a long time ago, but no way these days. Of all the theories behind cam timing and lift profiles, and there are many, they say lift (independant of valve timing) means power. If you can get .630-.670 lift with under 250 deg dur at .050, you will absolutely kick *** on street. The only way to get these aggressive lobe profiles to work is with a roller...Comp Cam extreme series are a perfect example...win-win all thru RPM range. Ultradyne also makes (2) very nice 460 street rollers...
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
460 tom
(no login)
63.28.78.54 nice build-up
No score for this post October 28 2000, 12:54 AM
SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT BUILD UP . I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A STAB AT THE NUMBERS. AFTER SEVERAL HOURS OF BREAK IN.. ALL TUNING AND JETTING DONE. MY GUESS IS 490 FT LBS AT 3600 RPM AND 430 HP AT 5500 ..BE SURE TO POST ALL INFO ON YOUR DYNO RUN. BE SURE TO CHANGE THE MOTOR OIL AND FILTER AFTER THE FIRST 30 MIN RUN. KEEP US POSTED........
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
IdahoCrewCab
(no login)
144.78.1.254 460 buildup
Score 5.0 (1 person) October 30 2000, 11:15 AM
My guess would be similar to that also.
I talked to my friend this weekend and he now he's thinking that he doesn't want to put his engine on the dyno. Of course I did everything I could to convince him to dyno the engine. It's the same old story. He's starting to run low on money and isn't sure that it's worth the money to have the engine dyno'd. His engine should be finished this week and maybe set up for the dyno by the weekend.
We'll just have to wait and see.
Todd
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Chris C
(no login)
208.6.240.153 My guess
No score for this post October 30 2000, 2:35 PM
Just for the record in case he does dyno it:
530 ftlbs at 4300rpm
455 hp at 5300rpm
Later on this week I'll cheat and put the combo. in my desktop dyno, see how close that comes.
