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1965 Ford F250
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I'm new here, and ill be honest. I'm here because this 460 has taken any pride in working around engines folded it neatly and stomped on it. Ill get to the facts and if any wisdom can be dispursed ill be happy to listen.

I purchased a 1965 Ford truck not running and now i suspect it may have never ran since engine was installed. It appears to be a fresh build so anything could wrong. The gentlemen who began this project has passed so ill never know.
Truck will start but its hard to start and runs terribly when it does. It will backfire through tailpipes if accelerated much. It will backfire through the carb as well. You need choke to be on to start as well as throttle opened. Which seems to be a function to funnel fuel into engine. You can never open choke all the way or it will die. Adding external fuel like carb cleaner doesnt seem to help or hinder it. You might have to turn distributor to aid starting as well.

Now for whats been done or checked.
It has a new fuel tank, lines, pump, carburetor is holley 750 it has been soaked and had a kit installed. I found a strange hole in metering block so i purchased another one and installed it. You can turn air flow screws all the way in while running and nothing changes. Set fuel level so it will slosh when you bump fender.
I installed electronic ignition, a new coil, owner before me installed new napa cap,rotor, wires, and plugs. They were fuel fouled and i have installed another set since. Appear to be fouled again. I checked distributor shaft to make sure it wasnt slipping on shaft.
I pulled plugs opened the throttle and did a cranking compression test. 150 lbs on every cylinder. I pulled number one cylinder where it blew my finger out and balancer was near zero degrees. I dialed it in and pulled cap, rotor is on number one cylinder on cap. I have checked firing order multiple times 15426378 and rotation is counter clockwise.

With number one on tdc i put shop air in the cylinder wondering if the timing chain was not lined up when installed. No air leakage except through valve cover breather. I am hoping its just rings not seated yet.
I could hear what sounded like rocker arm tick while running so I pulled valve covers and looked for any obvious problems. I found a couple rockers loose so after reading about adjustments i put each rocker on base side of cam lobe set to zero lash then gave them 1/2 turn preload. Running issues stayed the same. I inculded some pictures below.

One thing i cant figure out is there is less than 1" of cranking vacuum. You can put a rag in carburetor while cranking no change. I used a smoke machine to check for vacumm leaks but nothing showed up.

I apologize for the long post but ive tried to cover basic checks before taking time from anyone. At this point i considered buying a new carburetor but thats alot to spend on a guess. I cant figure out the cranking vacuum issue. Is it possible to somehow have wrong cam but still have cranking compression? I'm grasping at straws at this point. Any ideas are appreciated.
 

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HI, if you can screw the mixture screws all the way in and it stays running you have a vacuum leak or the throttle is open to much. I've heard that the idle screw is like 1/2 turn after touching the stop. the low vacuum of 1 would say vacuum leak.
Also its hard to get TDC by putting you finger over the hole. it may be done by just handing turning the motor.. then putting the rotor to #1..
Now this can confuse a lot of people.. in case you don't know..
The crank turns twice to one turn of the distributor. So one time you are at TDC it well be pointing to #1 wire and one more turn and the rotor well be pointing 180* out..
Now the motor does NOT care Where number 1 is in the cap as long as the firing order is right and #1 is at TDC of the compression stroke.

What you say is going on sounds like you are 180* out of time.. other than NO vacuum.. you might have a couple of problems..
Keep us informed on how its going

good luck take care be safe
tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the ideas Tim, I believe the difference in compression and exhaust stroke tdc is that you have a hard blow from cylinder on compression stroke when turning it over not as much on exhaust stroke. Also wouldnt exhaust valve be open at top of exhaust stroke? I think I'm lining up on correct stroke because when i apply air to cylinder no leaks out exahust or intake. Correct me if im wrong. At that point rotor is pointing toward number one on cap.
Ill try turning idle screw closed today and see if cranking vacuum is different.
 

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HI, sounds like you got TDC figured out..
You won't get much vacuum just cranking it over (missed that part) 1# is most likely about right for cranking.. you get the most vacuum with the motor running because the pistons are MOVING and creating much more vacuum up to 21# at idle.
Well if you smoked the motor and found no vacuum leaks that blows that thought out the window of vacuum leaks..
As for the exhaust valve being open at TDC of the exhaust stroke.. I think it should be almost closed at TDC because when it starts back down the intake valve has to be opening so it can draw in fuel/air..
At TDC or even before of the compression stroke Both valves should be closed. Are the rockers adjustable or are they stock non adjustable?? if they are adjustable maybe they are not adjusted properly??
I'm hoping not but you might have to pull the front and check that the crank and cam are timed properly, cam at 6 and crank at 12. but with you getting 150# compression timing chain and gears is most likely timed right..

let us know
good luck take care be safe
Tim
 

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1990 Ford Mustang LX 351M powered!! Project Cherry Bomb!!
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Following.... I'd like to see what the solution is on this one... If I can think of anything I'll chime in, but you've checked all the boxes I would have..I did think maybe leaky intake gaskets but wouldn't that show on a smoke check??
 

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I posted some pics of heads and valves below my post. They are adjustable valves. I placed them all at zero lash and then gave them a half turn. It ran the same before and after.
HI.. AH NO,, those are stock non adjustable rockers.. the nuts on adjustable rockers are completely different See below they have an allen screw down the middle so you can lock them down,


What you have is Tq. down stock ...
Maybe that's some of the problems..

good luck take care be safe
tim
 

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1990 Ford Mustang LX 351M powered!! Project Cherry Bomb!!
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OP has D0VE-C heads by the casting no. Those are adjustable cast iron factory rockers. He has adjusted the valve train properly by 0 lash + 1/2 turn on the base circle of the cam. The rocker nuts you are referring to are the aftermarket type for roller rockers. OP has factory rockers as shown in the picture.
 

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OEM early small chamber castings had cast iron rail rockers, bottleneck rocker studs with 3/8" fine nuts.
They were not adjustable OEM.

Mr. Gasket sold a kit to convert via shouldered poly locks.
Converting to 7/16" rocker studs and interference nuts as shown in the pics in post #1 makes them adjustable.





Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
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HI ok thanks Scott, i wasn't sure learn something every day no matter how old you are..
My apologizes to the poster for my misinformation
thanks again
tim
 

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1990 Ford Mustang LX 351M powered!! Project Cherry Bomb!!
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Thanks for the correction on my correction on misinformation! Now, where were we... Could OP possibly have a leaky intake manifold gasket causing the low vacuum readings and bad running??

Off topic: Scott, I've got a pair of those older heads, small chamber, small valve cast rail rockers and screw in studs, with no casting numbers.. haven't been ground off either.. is this odd??
 

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I posted some pics of heads and valves below my post. They are adjustable valves. I placed them all at zero lash and then gave them a half turn. It ran the same before and after.
HI,, you having any luck getting it to run better??
Good luck
tim
 

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1965 Ford F250
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Update. I knew i would end up back tracking somewhere on myself. I had changed plugs twice while mssing with this thing. After teh carb rebuild, valve adjustment etc i had not changed them. I had to choke this thing constantly to keep it running. I puled them today and there looked terribly fuel fouled. Installed a new set and it ran better than ive seen it run until it got warm. opened choke and it started missing on 4,6& 7. Held rag over carb and it smoothed out>nver saw this before. Got the brake cleaner and found a vacuum leak in carb body near metering plate. I want to guess this thing might have froze with water in carb at some point.
I was looking for reason to buy a new carb. I believe ill buy a new 650 with electric choke and see where we go from there. Thanks for being a sounding board. Ill update after carb.
 

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HI,,
You might want to stay with a 750 .. you'll lose a little power with a 650 just my opinion.. especially if you might want to go up a little in power adders down the line you won't need an carb..

glad its running better
good luck
tim
 

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HI OH.. as you say you don't know anything about the motor but it looked rebuilt.. SOOO it might have some type of cam in it... don't confuse a simi rough running cam with not running good? (y)
good luck
tim
 

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You may be in the right track with the warped body on the carb. Definitely update us after the new carb!! I'd the 650 fixes it I'd say you are really on your way with it. Then you can worry about any lil things it may need.. Just getting it running right now is the main thing...
 

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HI, if you can screw the mixture screws all the way in and it stays running you have a vacuum leak or the throttle is open to much. I've heard that the idle screw is like 1/2 turn after touching the stop. the low vacuum of 1 would say vacuum leak.
Also its hard to get TDC by putting you finger over the hole. it may be done by just handing turning the motor.. then putting the rotor to #1..
Now this can confuse a lot of people.. in case you don't know..
The crank turns twice to one turn of the distributor. So one time you are at TDC it well be pointing to #1 wire and one more turn and the rotor well be pointing 180* out..
Now the motor does NOT care Where number 1 is in the cap as long as the firing order is right and #1 is at TDC of the compression stroke.

What you say is going on sounds like you are 180* out of time.. other than NO vacuum.. you might have a couple of problems..
Keep us informed on how its going

good luck take care be safe
tim
since you have no idea about the rebuild you have no idea if and how far the heads have been milled.I would remove the intake pull all the gasket material,set the intake back in place.You more than likely have a wedgie space between the head and intake.If it is more than five thou,it will be noticeable.Because of the non adjustable train,and valve grinding,there are a boat load of pushrods available.Same same on all makes w/lock down valve train.This is not native to 460.So perservere,and your new knowledge bank will cross all makes and most years.The worst you will be out is a set of intake gaskets.Very cheap education.Then buy an adjustable push rod to actually measure the correct length you need.
 
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