What stall and gears do you plan on running, vehicle weight? I imagine it weighs ~4000#. 600hp is easily doable with a stroker. I sourced my rotating assembly from Coast High Performance. If you are set on the 4.5 inch stroke I would definitely use the TFS heads, a nice mild solid roller (displacement directly effects cam size) and a dual plane intake would make for a extremely torquey monster. If you can do a .030" overbore I don't see any reason to go with an .080" overbore. For your intended purpose the gains will be almost unnoticeable and you would effectively make that the last overbore on the block. I wouldn't bore the block any more than necasarry to clean up the bores.
545 or 557 cu in?
Hello gentlemen,
After feeling motivated and pulling a core from a 1968 T-Bird in a local yard (C8VE) I was thinking about attempting to build my first stroker engine.
I was looking into the Scat forged stroker rotating assembly kit.
This engine will be going into a 1969 Galaxie with a C-6 and 9 inch rear.
I would like to make at least 600 rear wheel HP, but as this is a street / strip car (80 / 20 percent) I am more interested in usable off the line torque than high RPM HP.
I have a few questions of the collective wisdom on the site.
First, should I go for the 545 (.030 overbore) or 557 (.080 overbore), and are there any inherent benefits / detriments to either?
Second, should I go for aluminum heads (e.g. Trick Flow) or my home ported D0VE's (done in accordance with Scotty J's site information)?
Third, where is a good and reliable source for the rotating assembly in question? (I was on the Flatlander Racing site)
Thank you,
James
After feeling motivated and pulling a core from a 1968 T-Bird in a local yard (C8VE) I was thinking about attempting to build my first stroker engine.
I was looking into the Scat forged stroker rotating assembly kit.
This engine will be going into a 1969 Galaxie with a C-6 and 9 inch rear.
I would like to make at least 600 rear wheel HP, but as this is a street / strip car (80 / 20 percent) I am more interested in usable off the line torque than high RPM HP.
I have a few questions of the collective wisdom on the site.
First, should I go for the 545 (.030 overbore) or 557 (.080 overbore), and are there any inherent benefits / detriments to either?
Second, should I go for aluminum heads (e.g. Trick Flow) or my home ported D0VE's (done in accordance with Scotty J's site information)?
Third, where is a good and reliable source for the rotating assembly in question? (I was on the Flatlander Racing site)
Thank you,
James
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
he wants 600RWHP which i say isnt EASY. He still needs the right parts. 600rwhp w/ a C6 and 9in can be as much as 800hp at the crank if these drivetrains are as inneficient as most people say they are (25% loss). As a reference my unported TFS Street Head combo made 513rwhp in my 533 Galaxie with a 260/269 .650/.650 solid roller cam and 1150 dominator and 3 inch exhaust/magnaflow mufflers. Hes looking for roughly 100 more rwhp than that. Doable but will take even more serious parts.What stall and gears do you plan on running, vehicle weight? I imagine it weighs ~4000#. 600hp is easily doable with a stroker. I sourced my rotating assembly from Coast High Performance. If you are set on the 4.5 inch stroke I would definitely use the TFS heads, a nice mild solid roller (displacement directly effects cam size) and a dual plane intake would make for a extremely torquey monster. If you can do a .030" overbore I don't see any reason to go with an .080" overbore. For your intended purpose the gains will be almost unnoticeable and you would effectively make that the last overbore on the block. I wouldn't bore the block any more than necasarry to clean up the bores.
My RWHP numbers are through a Dynapack and timing was only 22* so im sure there was a bit more to be had, i caught the timing error WAY after it was dynoed so i dont know the final numbers or dynojet brand numbers.
Personally, i dont really think you have to worry about tq. when youre dealing with 545-557ci. i would just run a single plane intake if youre really shooting for 600rwhp/
There isn't going to be a significant difference between a +.030 and +.080 engine. I tend to favor minimal overbore in case the block needs to be bored again later.
If you're looking for 600 HP at the rear wheels, that equates to approx 750 at the flywheel. Given our altitude, the engine will need to be built to the same level as a 1000HP sea level engine. 80% street / 20% strip from a 1000HP engine is a very, very tall order. Not a chance you're going to get there with ported iron. At the least you're looking at A460 heads, big roller cam, lots of compression.....and lots of maintanence.
My suggestion would be to build something a little more mild and spray as desired.
If you're looking for 600 HP at the rear wheels, that equates to approx 750 at the flywheel. Given our altitude, the engine will need to be built to the same level as a 1000HP sea level engine. 80% street / 20% strip from a 1000HP engine is a very, very tall order. Not a chance you're going to get there with ported iron. At the least you're looking at A460 heads, big roller cam, lots of compression.....and lots of maintanence.
My suggestion would be to build something a little more mild and spray as desired.
Thanks for the reply.
I was planning on running a set of Richmond 3.89's in the rear.
The stall will be about 2,000 RPM over stock.
I was just planning on using TCI tranny parts sourced from Summit. I have them in my convertible, and they seem up to the job of at least 450 HP. This may end up being a weak link in my design plan.
The car weighs in at roughly 4,200 pounds, so it's rather heavy.
So, you would go solid lifters rather than hydraulic?
I thought the same thing about the overbore, as I probably shouldn't make the walls any thinner than necessary.
This will primarily be a street car, but if I could get into the 12's at my local strip that would be nice too.
Thanks for taking the time, I'm still pretty new to this, and have only built two pretty mild 460's so far.
James
I was planning on running a set of Richmond 3.89's in the rear.
The stall will be about 2,000 RPM over stock.
I was just planning on using TCI tranny parts sourced from Summit. I have them in my convertible, and they seem up to the job of at least 450 HP. This may end up being a weak link in my design plan.
The car weighs in at roughly 4,200 pounds, so it's rather heavy.
So, you would go solid lifters rather than hydraulic?
I thought the same thing about the overbore, as I probably shouldn't make the walls any thinner than necessary.
This will primarily be a street car, but if I could get into the 12's at my local strip that would be nice too.
Thanks for taking the time, I'm still pretty new to this, and have only built two pretty mild 460's so far.
James
Thanks for getting me back to reality on those RW HP numbers.
I suppose that 750 at the crank for something streetable is a tall order indeed.
That's the problem about doing this all on paper, and not having a test mule.
However, that's why I availed myself of your knowledge.
TFS heads it is.
Dual plane intake.
Longer duration cam.
Thanks.
I suppose that 750 at the crank for something streetable is a tall order indeed.
That's the problem about doing this all on paper, and not having a test mule.
However, that's why I availed myself of your knowledge.
TFS heads it is.
Dual plane intake.
Longer duration cam.
Thanks.
TFS A460 heads, not TFS streets. SCJ/P-51 heads at the least. TFS Streets are not the way to go. Single plane intake. Dominator 1050-1150 carb. Solid roller cam.Thanks for getting me back to reality on those RW HP numbers.
I suppose that 750 at the crank for something streetable is a tall order indeed.
That's the problem about doing this all on paper, and not having a test mule.
However, that's why I availed myself of your knowledge.
TFS heads it is.
Dual plane intake.
Longer duration cam.
Thanks.
Thanks Carl,
Yes, A460's with the BBC exhaust ports.
Any thoughts on where to source the Scat rotating assembly?
Yes, A460's with the BBC exhaust ports.
Any thoughts on where to source the Scat rotating assembly?
There is also another option..
You already have plenty of Galaxies.. Why not throw that engine in a much lighter 66/67 Fairlane. The body is very similar in terms of styling, and the engine would have much more of an effect. Just a suggestion..
You already have plenty of Galaxies.. Why not throw that engine in a much lighter 66/67 Fairlane. The body is very similar in terms of styling, and the engine would have much more of an effect. Just a suggestion..
Fairlane
I'd love to get my hands on a 66/67 Fairlane (IMO they are the best looking of the 60's series) but man, are they expensive.
I'd be worried about parts too; that's the reason that I have the Galaxie fleet (my pile of parts is interchangeable).
I'd love to get my hands on a 66/67 Fairlane (IMO they are the best looking of the 60's series) but man, are they expensive.
I'd be worried about parts too; that's the reason that I have the Galaxie fleet (my pile of parts is interchangeable).
eh.. It really depends on where you get it from and what condition it is in. My '66 500 is a good runner (or it was until I blew the engine) with a nice body and aftermarket wheels, and I only paid $6500 for it>
http://gallery.quattroworld.com/d/18213-2/DSC01112.JPG
I'm sure you could find a decent one minus drivetrain if you look around. That is true about the parts though.. Didn't think about that.
http://gallery.quattroworld.com/d/18213-2/DSC01112.JPG
I'm sure you could find a decent one minus drivetrain if you look around. That is true about the parts though.. Didn't think about that.
I am sorry about my post I missed the part about rear wheel power. Thats alot of ponies to try to drive around. I think ~650 fw/hp is a very healthy street strip combo and still a handful! I know I wouldn't ever even want drive my combo in the rain. As it, is driving around on dry streets is almost like driving on ice.
really??? my car drives around just fine. if i give it too much gas, then yes i do have traction problems but thats always on purpose. mine seems very easy to control..... As it, is driving around on dry streets is almost like driving on ice.
ok ok maybe a slight exaggeration but it can be a real handful very quickly. I was trying to come up with a decent comparison and that was only thing I could think of. I will say this though it definitely is not a vehicle I would let someone inexperienced drive.
I was trying to come up with a decent comparison and that was only thing I could think of. I will say this though it definitely is not a vehicle I would let someone inexperienced drive.
If you are wanting to run 12's, stick with the iron heads and as Carl said use spray if you want to go quicker. To run low 12's all you need is around 500hp with 4200 lb using a 2500 converter and 3.9 gears. The ****load of torque you will have with 545 cubes will launch that 4200lb pretty good.
If you want longer life out of it, you may want to consider a 4.3 stroke. But most importantly, I want to see some pics of the cars !!!! I drove a '69 XL in high school, and then my exwife wrecked it while I was in the Corps.
first off, if your going to use the TF A-460heads i would be very concerned running just a 30 overbore. 80 over is minimum and you would still need to notch the cylinder walls for valve clearance. here's what i would build if i had a #4000 car and wanted 800 HP for street/strip use.
first i would not use a 2 bolt block, you can use a 2 bolt but you would need to use a girdle with it along with studs. i would try and find a Dove 2-bolt and install the cheap Cat 4-bolt caps, now you have something to work with, then go 80 over for a 557. most Dove blocks will withstand the 80 overbore. the crank would be an Eagle forged unit 4.5 and i would use at least Eagle ESP rods or better topped with some Diamond pistons with an overall compression ratio of 10.5 to 1. Tf or Ford Motersport heads will work fine unported, if you can find a ported set all the better. this will work fine for the street power you want, now you will need to install a 400 HP plate system from cold fusion products and install a 175 or 200 jet for the strip duty, this combo will not only be reliable but will generate all the HP you want. the intake is your choice but i would run a single plane w/ 1050 Dom. you will also want the MSD set up so you can retard the timing automaticly when you spray it. oh yea the cam, hmm let me see, yea, well a roller would be great but i think you can get away with a solid flat tappet cam around 625 intake 600 exh running about 270 @50 intake and 280 @50 exh. and i would run a little more lobe sepreation than normal so that when you hit the go-go button she responds better. good luck
first i would not use a 2 bolt block, you can use a 2 bolt but you would need to use a girdle with it along with studs. i would try and find a Dove 2-bolt and install the cheap Cat 4-bolt caps, now you have something to work with, then go 80 over for a 557. most Dove blocks will withstand the 80 overbore. the crank would be an Eagle forged unit 4.5 and i would use at least Eagle ESP rods or better topped with some Diamond pistons with an overall compression ratio of 10.5 to 1. Tf or Ford Motersport heads will work fine unported, if you can find a ported set all the better. this will work fine for the street power you want, now you will need to install a 400 HP plate system from cold fusion products and install a 175 or 200 jet for the strip duty, this combo will not only be reliable but will generate all the HP you want. the intake is your choice but i would run a single plane w/ 1050 Dom. you will also want the MSD set up so you can retard the timing automaticly when you spray it. oh yea the cam, hmm let me see, yea, well a roller would be great but i think you can get away with a solid flat tappet cam around 625 intake 600 exh running about 270 @50 intake and 280 @50 exh. and i would run a little more lobe sepreation than normal so that when you hit the go-go button she responds better. good luck
The A460 heads will work with a 4.390" bore. Bigger bores will give better performance.
521 cubes TFS Streets and a Scat forged rotating assembly with -22 cc valve reliefs 10.87:1 compression will run on 93 octane and matching intake and a 1050 cfm quickfuel carb should be more than capable of pushing that car to 12's.
Thanks
For all the suggestions guys.
Sorry for my delayed reply, but I had to put a new fuel pump on my daily driver (XL).
What an ordeal.
Whoever designed the 390 should be shot if they are not already dead.
Much more difficult to work on than a 460.
If all I need to make 12's is a 600 fw hp engine, I shall attempt to build that.
It sounds as though that would be much more budget friendly too.
Thanks again.
For all the suggestions guys.
Sorry for my delayed reply, but I had to put a new fuel pump on my daily driver (XL).
What an ordeal.
Whoever designed the 390 should be shot if they are not already dead.
Much more difficult to work on than a 460.
If all I need to make 12's is a 600 fw hp engine, I shall attempt to build that.
It sounds as though that would be much more budget friendly too.
Thanks again.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
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