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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

The first 38 minutes is some religious stuff that can be skipped. After that it gets into the 9/11 stuff that I find interesting. I would dismiss it all, except I remember watching the news that day and thinking it sure looked like a controlled demolition to me. Granted, I was only a dumb 20 year old then, but even as a dumb 27 year old, it still seems way too fishy. Thoughts?
 

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Controlled demolition eh?

I seriously doubt it due to seeing tonnes of buildings brought down over the years by the best in the demolition industry: Controlled Demolition Inc. (CDI) these guys have brought down huge buildings over their 58 years in business . They have over 7000 buildings that they have demolished over the years and they are the experts to go to when a building needs to be removed. The videos that I have witnessed on the net of controlled detonations, reveals that even the best in the business of destruction the ARMY much less CDI, has a really hard time getting the detonations absolutely perfect on every "shot"

Besides. the World Trade Center was an extremely busy building with constant traffic day/night. The huge main support beams would have to be stripped of their fire-retardant covering as well as other construction materials to expose them to any carefully hidden, supposed government shadow ops agents that brought tones of these explosives into the building to blow up when the remote controlled planes (that also supposedly fire "rockets" into the building tens of seconds before crashing) Not only that, but the same support beams also need to be carefully pre-cut to fall "just right"

I think that all of that activity on the floors that these "controlled demolitions" happened on would have been discovered long before Sept 11th as they could not be that stealthy(really)

The simple fact is that the jets that hit the WTC had just taken off and where loaded with full tanks of fuel for overseas destinations and where extremely heavy. The simple impact of these aircraft was enough to destroy many of the fire safeguards that where mandated in the 1970's when the WTC was built. The idea that any controlled demolition was needed to destroy the WTC was dreamed up by crack smokers...

This "Zeitgeist" film is really well done with an obviously a very large production budget that smacks of a well healed (Hungarian born) financier . Way too slick of a production for a usually poor under funded conspiracy group(s) concerned for our liberties..This is simply a political hit piece nothing more...
 

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If someone here can figure out how many BTU's are released when 10,000 gallons of diesel fuel burn (same as Jet-A) I think you'll see that there was MORE than enough heat to destroy the steel in those buildings.

That the buildings held up to a 400 MPH impact of a 250,000 lbs object is purely amazing as well.

Greg
 

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Yep,

and Roosevelt allowed pearl harbor to be bombed to get us in WWII, Kennedy was shot by the CIA, etc... etc...

On Sept. 11th, 2001 the USA was attacked by a group of terrorists and nothing should divert from the task of bringing those responsible to justice. It really is as simple as that. God bless the USA !

Steve
 

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You know the thing that always amazes me the most about these conspiracy theories about 9/11 is that they are rely on the fact that those weren't real jets but where missiles or military drones painted to look like jets etc. Ok think about this for about a micro second, lets assume that those weren't the jets that were hijacked, so what happened to the real jets that were hijacked, we do know for a fact that 4 commercial jets with the several hundred passengers and crew are missing, so in order to pull this off you would have to make those jets and people disappear which would require people to kill them because well frankly there is no way you could pay them enough so that you could be guaranteed that non of them would ever talk. then you would have to fly the planes to a remote location and have them dismantled or crashed them somewhere to keep them from being hidden etc, so now what do you do about the people that did the killing and getting rid of the plans, well now you would have to kill them too, and of coarse you need to get the numbers down so you would kill that group also. now you also have to remove the bodies etc so basically to bring this off you would have to involve then kill an extra 4-600 people and involve another couple hundred that you didn't kill and yet no one has leaked a word.
So now what would be the easiest way to get rid of those people and planes, ummm maybe instead of going through all that trouble and expense etc maybe actually flying them into a building in plain view of everybody just like it appears, but oh wait if you did that the almost ALL the conspiracy theories fall apart.
sheesh
 

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Discussion Starter #7
68xr7cat said:
Yep,

and Roosevelt allowed pearl harbor to be bombed to get us in WWII, Kennedy was shot by the CIA, etc... etc...

On Sept. 11th, 2001 the USA was attacked by a group of terrorists and nothing should divert from the task of bringing those responsible to justice. It really is as simple as that. God bless the USA !

Steve
I thought the ones who were responsible for the attack died when the planes hit the buildings. How do you bring dead people to justice? Which is why suicide also isn't illegal. You can't punish someone for murder of themselves if they're dead. And yeah, maybe you could say that we should kill the attackers' families or friends. But I didn't think that's how we do things in this country. We are individuals and so were the terrorists. No one MADE them do it. They did it of their own accord. And just because someone supports what they did, does not make them guilty of a crime in my opinion. I may think it's cool that my friend drives 110mph everywhere and I may support those actions, but if he gets caught and ticketed for speeding, I don't think it'd be fair to ticket me also.
 

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ScottJackson said:
And just because someone supports what they did, does not make them guilty of a crime in my opinion. I may think it's cool that my friend drives 110mph everywhere and I may support those actions, but if he gets caught and ticketed for speeding, I don't think it'd be fair to ticket me also.
People don't get tried as an accomplice to speeding :?
 

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Yes, those who seized control of the planes died, but the organization that was responsible has not been brought to justice.

I don't think you understand. This was not an act of a few individuals acting alone. 911 was an act of war no different then the bombing of pearl harbor. In the case of pearl harbor the result was the USA declaring war on Italy, Germany, and Japan. Based on yuor logic they should have just went after the fighter pilots....

The only difference with 911 is that we cannot point to a country per se, but rather it is a organized group. It was an act of war by that group, they just don't have a country.

Steve
 

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68xr7cat said:
Yes, those who seized control of the planes died, but the organization that was responsible has not been brought to justice.



The only difference with 911 is that we cannot point to a country per se, but rather it is a organized group. It was an act of war by that group, they just don't have a country.

Steve
We seem to have found right where there hiding ,.right next to the oil wells.... :shock: ..............

Its not a organazation.....its like homeless people ,you cant end their organization,because there is not one.

The "CONSPIRACY" is to keep you busy entertaining the thoughts of conspiracy on a event you cant change and will never know the "classified "documented thruth about anyway...............,all the while they are taking the real tangible rights away ,like freedom of speach ,the right to bear arms ,the freedom to assemble......................etc
Its like a bad parlor trick to me,I see right thru it,like a child performing his first slight of hand trick,.Controll the media,put all the 9/11 stuff in all the headlines and keep them occupied with conspiracy ,while we take all the constitutional rights away from them,those stories are not even printed by the media.....what do we get as a reward...?The PATRIOT act :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
68xr7cat said:
Yes, those who seized control of the planes died, but the organization that was responsible has not been brought to justice.

I don't think you understand. This was not an act of a few individuals acting alone. 911 was an act of war no different then the bombing of pearl harbor. In the case of pearl harbor the result was the USA declaring war on Italy, Germany, and Japan. Based on yuor logic they should have just went after the fighter pilots....

The only difference with 911 is that we cannot point to a country per se, but rather it is a organized group. It was an act of war by that group, they just don't have a country.

Steve
Have you seen that classic movie, "Animal House"? If so, do you remember the part where they are defending their toga party and they link the few wrong-doers to the organization to which they belong and keep going up and up until it is questioned whether this isn't an indictment of the educational system as a whole? There are almost always other parties involved in every crime that is committed. Some are more closely linked than others. By your logic, since Timothy McVeigh was a U.S. citizen and had help/support of other U.S. citizens, we should have definately went to war with the United States. I wonder how well our military would do against itself. Hmmmm.
 

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....

I would like to commend everyone who replied to this thread for not verbally abusing scott :roll: for posting this stupid video, I'm sure that's what he was hoping for and none of you gave it to him.....
 

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9/11

I'll never forget that day. I was driving home from work at the fire dept when I heard it on the radio, I shortly got home and turned the tv just in time to watch the building come down. Then hearing all the pass devices goimg off If you remember all the beepers going off those are the pass devices. Right then I could not believe what I was hearing I could not believe all those firemen were dead and civilians. Then the seconde building came down all those guys went in knowing they were probably going to die but they did there Job. By no means was this a conspiracy some nuts decided they wanted to kill anyone in the U.S.A. Should are goverment have been more prepared yes, but theres nothing we can do about the past, but we sure should take care of it now and be more prepared, because you now thats its a matter of time and some more nuts will do something like that again.
 

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scot jackson, no you wouldnt get a ticket, but if you gave a gun to someone and said shoot that man. whats your take on that
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My take on that would be that I am not at fault, even more so if the person chose to not follow my directions. Now, if that person was one of my henchmen (I have over 60 henchmen to do my dirty work at this point, and my army is growing), then I would be an accessory to some small degree.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I actually think you may be right in some regards. With the latest round of freedom violating laws that have been passed by the prez, it takes very little to do something that can be tweeked to mean that one of these new laws has been broken (think Patriot Act). Lincoln did the same thing (although to a smaller extent... the population was smaller too) during our civil war. It caused me to lose a great deal of respect for him. At what point does one become a "tattler" and inflate a decent and reasonable discussion into something it's completely not? If giving the impression to others that violence is OK or that breaking the law is acceptable in some situations is a crime, you could do much better than to report folks like me to the authorities. How many movies, which reach millions, promote violence and aggression? How many music artists and novelists do the same thing? Web sites of many different kinds? What makes this country great is that we can have open information sharing. A lot of people from western Europe have the impression of the U.S. that we're a bunch of violent yahoos and if you go to the U.S. you should be afraid you'll get shot. To an extent they're right. We have more lax gun laws here and there is more violent crime. Still, does that make our nation worse than theirs or is it actually better that the people here have held on so much to their individual power and rights? As for your example of being punished by your teacher, I was punished from time to time by my teachers also. Sometimes it was fair, other times it was not. And yes, I was also punished by association. I was one of about 3 kids in my class that was friends with both the popular and wealthy kids as well as the white trash trouble makers. When one of the trouble-makers would do something and the teacher didn't know who did it, I was often punished with them. When one of the popular kids did something and didn't fess up, I was often punished with the trouble-makers (who also did nothing wrong). You don't suppose this wrongful punishment by being an accomplice has anything to do with the menaces to society that you refer to? If there's anything that will turn a person against authority and their teachers, it's punishment and blame for things that person had nothing to do with. So yes, my upbringing is likely part of why I give strangers possibly too much benefit of the doubt and let mistakes by others go so easily. Life's too short to be bitter about people who don't agree with you.

As for my parenting, you're partly right on that also. As my mom died from ALS (Lou Gehrig's) I moved in with my dad and step mom here on the farm. My step mom resented me and my sister and every day as soon as I got home from school, I was out of the house and generally by myself fishing (ice fishing in the winter) until dark. It was mainly to stay away from her as much as possible. On the other hand, I already had most of my opinions and values by then. I care very much about people and I'm brutally honest except for the times I'm being sarcastic. I am one of the first people to admit I've made a mistake and when I feel guilt for something, it's very strong. While my views of holding groups responsible for individual's crimes may be skewed by my upbringing, I can assure you I am not a threat to anyone. I'm no John Lennon preaching peace for everyone, but I do get a little disturbed when almost all I see is unnecessary wilful harm to others. Sometimes it's like a big Jerry Springer show and I don't understand why people will go out of their way so much to see to it that others are brought to "justice". I used to think it was because these people were bored with their lives and used this kind of aggression as their only means to spice it up a bit. Now I'm more convinced that children are brought up to be paranoid of strangers and that harming others is perfectly acceptable. I guess I am a weirdo with unacceptable views of forgiveness. I hear Jesus had it pretty rough too... :roll: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." - Ghandi
 

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ScottJackson said:
I guess I am a weirdo with unacceptable views of forgiveness. I hear Jesus had it pretty rough too... :roll: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." - Ghandi
You have a big mouth, man, and comparing yourself to Jesus is simply ridiculous.

Your entire post was a rambling, pointless waste of time.

Seems you like to make up for lack of knowledge with a wordy and obtuse diatribe.

Whatever.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Billy Madison: A simple wrong would've done just fine.
 
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