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Discussion Starter #1
I have a new project car (a '98 GT) and plan to use a '96 F3TE headed 460 in it. I have seen a lot of truck oriented builds (big torque, low rpm, towing or 4x4 applications) with the EFI heads but I don't think I have seen any that were going in a Fox Mustang or SN95 or something like that. I am well aware of the differences between the EFI and the carbureted heads/intakes/headers, etc. so that is a non-issue for what I am doing.

I am interested in builds that are more street/strip oriented.

Anyone have a link or have built one using these heads?

91963
 

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I had this discussion with a phone client recently.

The port cross section / velocity and air flow rates are incompatible with a higher rpm street performance build.

The carb heads will be better at about 1 hp per inch like port work for like.


SJ
used 2b RHP


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Discussion Starter #3
I will expound on this project's parameters a little more. This is not a race car build. What I intend to do with this car is pull the broken 4.6L/T45 and slip a 460/C6 (maybe my E4OD) back in. Utilizing all the factory EEC-V (with help/guidance from efidynotuning.com) and keeping all the factory installed amenities, power steering, AC, cruise, etc. Sorta like building the BBF powered SN95 Ford could have built back in 1998. Haha.

The other self-imposed requirement of this build is to use engine/transmissions/parts I have sitting around. I have a 74 460 and a 96 460 available. Either engine needs to be disassembled and checked out. I am not building a race motor by any stretch of the imagination so it will be stock-type parts going back in, save for the cam, valve springs and possibly pistons to drag the CR up from the mid 8's. The kicker is, I really do not want to jack with porting either set of heads. I did a set of D3's a couple years ago for the turbo F100. They turned out good, but that was enough for me. Haha. I might clean up the bowls a skosh, but that would be the extent of it. I was really favoring the F3's mainly due to the fact the intake ports are not far behind a D3, but the exhaust ports are much better, stock for stock. I am not expecting race motor hp numbers, but I know there is plenty of untapped potential just with more compression and a decent camshaft. If I ever decide to make it more serious, I would change the entire top end anyway.


91964
 

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I drive a F3TE build. 528", RV cam, 0 decked block, 32 cc D cup dished pistons. 9:1 compression ratio, a little port work on the intake manifold, complete Banks Power Pack exhaust. Factory EEC-IV with TwEECer tuner on the "J" port. Built E4OD tranny. Runs on 87 octane E10 with no detonation. BUT! It's in a 1995 class A Bounder motorhome. It halls 20,500 lbs up the side of a mountain with the best of them.
When I suggested the build on this forum, all the professionals said I couldn't build that engine and run it with an EEC-IV. Little did they know, at the time, about the TwEECer.

Richard
 

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Scotty, couple of questions for you if you have time. I'm in a very similar boat and have similar feelings about the 6 pounds of cast iron per side heading towards my nose. I'm not sure I'm really up to a full effort port on the F3TE right now, but it looks pretty good on paper with just a little work. I'm thinking "budget port" style. Let's say the stock EFI parts are only the lower manifold / fuel rails, and it's been given a thorough cleanup like you've shown here or FB.

Based on the flow numbers, does 450-500 hp seem out of line with enough cam, out around 5500-6000 ish? I'm not looking at making a street stomper, just "healthy". I've seen your 400/500 torque builds and they are pretty sexy but I'm willing to trade a bit of low end torque for a bit of HP. Basically, right at or a bit more than 1hp / cube, and buy a set of heads / intake if that doesn't make me giggle.

9.7:1 flat tops, stock chambers (maybe mill .010 or so or whatever it takes for cleanup)
[email protected] "ish" cam, I'm kind of enamored with the 233/241 voodoo currently. Crane rocker kit since I think that' over the limit of the factory rockers
Ported EFI lower, Your adapter
4bbl throttle body, 42 pound injectors, Quarterhorse or Megasquirt (or 750 Holley. Up in the air still.)
2" long tubes, 30+" primary, 3" dual full exhaust

I saw where you had revised information on the D0ve / D3 exhausts and that's a huge difference, but I'm honestly wanting to have a go at these F3's. Probably the valve covers are the reason. (grin) I've seen some pretty good numbers from an all out E7 port, I'm wondering if the F3 with some effort might go 300cfm around .550 lift on the intake and whether it takes doing the whole port or a basic bowl / runner cleanup?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Looks like we're on our own Beagle! Lol

You made any more progress lately? Haven't seen any updates from you.
 

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The E7 and F3 heads are capable of making 500+ Hp in stroker applications.


Deduct a few % with a lower static c/r. Note that HP peak occured at 4,500 rpm.

Budget ported F3 castings can move 290 to300 cfm at about .600" lift. 2.11" Ferrea intake. Larger exhaust valve is not needed. More port cross section AND a larger valve will get near 240 cfm which is not needed at this power level.

Larger valves and more involved port work will see 330 but it takes work. The swirl design of the F3 intake port makes better power than the E7 for similar flow rates due to better QUALITY OF FLOW.

With the equivalent of our budget ported F3's, ported EFI intake and a 233 / 249 custom voodoo cam I see 490 Hp as reasonable at a 460 ish inch target.
Greater displacement will grant more HP potential.

Ultimately the OEM intake, while pretty good, will be the bottleneck. It is as good ported as a performer. The PMS intake adapters to utilize a carb intake are helpful as more power is needed based on our flow testing work.

Carb heads with a better flowing intake port and less efficient exhaust port still make better power. Especially the early castings.
The EFI castings are very good at doing what they were designed for.
Less so when pushed beyond.
Appropriate intake port cross section and air speed is a consideration in any performance application.


SJ
used 2b RHP


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Thank you Scotty, that answered all questions I had in a post held up for approval - I edited it too many times I guess.
 
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