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Discussion Starter #1
Hi y'all. I finally have the 460 bolted in (see pic. BTW - that's Georgia Bulldog RED and NOT Chevy Orange!) and am getting real close to firing it up for the first time. But my question is about my carb. I have a Holley 4160 at 600 CFM. Everything I've been reading says that this is too small, BUT I'd really like to avoid buying another one if at all possible.

Can anyone offer suggestions? Here are my specs:
  • D3VE heads with a homemade porting job from PO
  • Almost-flat-top pistons with an estimated 9:1 CR
  • Weiand Stealth intake
  • Flowtech headers
  • Mild cam - 486 intake and 512 exhaust lift. 282/292 duration.
And if I choose to stay with the 600 for now? Is it gonna turn all my work into a dog? Or will it be more of a situation where I'm simply not getting full potential?

THANKS!
92313
 

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750 Holley with Vacuum secondaries for the street or the same carb but a double pumper for racing should be about perfect.
 

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This combination of parts will likely not break 400 hp. a 600 Holley is adequate for the moment.

A 750 would offer a bit more top side but the 204 / 214 cam is going to finish early and peak well below 5000 rpm.


SJ
used 2b RHP


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Actually most early (60s) 429/460s had small carbs also. Only hurt top end in the long run and actually gave them so gas mileage.
Look for a used, (if a new one is to pricey) 750 DP Holley. That'll bring her alive a bit more.
Model 4150 Aluminum Double Pumper, 750 cfm, 4-barrel, Square Bore, Mechanical Secondary, Electric Choke, Tumble Polished, Gasoline, $500 on sale at Summit.
 

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Check out Holley's "refurbished" stuff on their site. I've never bought a re-furbished carb, but I will be soon at these prices with warranty to boot.

 
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Discussion Starter #6
  • Scotty, that's great advice, I (and my wife!) are relieved I'll be alright not having to buy something else right away.
  • Dacofa, good to hear Scotty's POV confirmed. I'll def BOLO for the 750. Is a DP much harder to dial in than a single?
  • 3B, I was looking at those as well. Good prices, but literally everything I wanted was out of stock...hopefully just a Christmas thing?
 

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I didn't confirm what Scotty picked. I know what works from doing it for years. DP is easier to dial in as long as you have a idea of how they work. They're not a "bolt on" set up by no means. But then nothing is anymore and each situation is different.
Since yours is a truck, trucks seem to prefer DP carbs. Whatever carb you get, don't just throw it on. Remove the bowls and check for garbage and make sure both butterflies are opening completely via the throttle shaft. I've had to bend several pri/sec rods to make them work right.
Dynos and puters only give you a starting point. Vehicles are real world items that require real world solutions.
 

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It is true that the BBF's seem to prefer larger carbs especially when one is looking to maximize RPM potential.

I base my recommendations not only on seat of the pants experience but on direct CFM measurement from a dyno hat.

Our 400+ hp EFI crate builds require 593 cfm typically.
Our 425 hp carbed builds require about 610 cfm typically.

Fuel economy is dictated primarily by idle feed restrictor, air bleed and emulsion tube configuration. The aforementioned assumes proper ignition tuning.

Out of the box universal Holley carburetors are pig rich in idle and transition where much of your drive time occurs.


SJ
used 2b RHP


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Never have raced a dyno. I wonder how they are off the line and on road courses? Nor a computer. I knew an Engineering Officer back in the late 70s who would always tell me, "that according to the book, the engine should do this". I would have to remind him that the engine can't read and does what it wants to.
 

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Never have raced a dyno. I wonder how they are off the line and on road courses? Nor a computer. I knew an Engineering Officer back in the late 70s who would always tell me, "that according to the book, the engine should do this". I would have to remind him that the engine can't read and does what it wants to.

You trying to be some kind of wise guy?

I made a suggestion based on the outlined combination and gave airflow needs based on a significant number of dyno tests.
I also allowed for the fact based on my *** dyno experience that a 750 would perform better on the topside while stating that the 600 cfm carburetor the OP currently has is ADEQUATE FOR THE MOMENT.

So.... Given the above set of facts, what precisely is your problem?
You are not talking to some newby who doesn't know his *** from a knot on a tree.
Am I making my position clear? smdh

SJ
used 2b RHP
 

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Very clear. Your only real world is a dyno, not on the track or real world. Dyno is a very controlled environment and not the real world. BIG DIFFERENCE. Yeah you're been on here about 5 months longer then I have. I wonder why after every dyno building an engine race teams still goes out and tests them IN A REAL WORLD SITUATION and adjust them from there? Always works on paper.
So how do you factor in trans, diff, slipage, tires, road surface, alt, air temp, rain, cold morning starts, etc, etc, etc? On your dyno? Those that can't do it, teach it. A business professor that has never owned a business, teaches it?
You done beating your chest now? LMAO
 

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Very clear. Your only real world is a dyno, not on the track or real world. Dyno is a very controlled environment and not the real world. BIG DIFFERENCE. Yeah you're been on here about 5 months longer then I have. I wonder why after every dyno building an engine race teams still goes out and tests them IN A REAL WORLD SITUATION and adjust them from there? Always works on paper.
So how do you factor in trans, diff, slipage, tires, road surface, alt, air temp, rain, cold morning starts, etc, etc, etc? On your dyno? Those that can't do it, teach it. A business professor that has never owned a business, teaches it?
You done beating your chest now? LMAO

Your attempt to conflate my posting of some dyno airflow measurements (to make a point) with a lack of "Real World" quantification of drive-ability and performance data is self serving and dishonest.
It appears that you have a reading comprehension issue. What part of butt dyno did you miss?

I've been contributing to 460 ford dot com since the very early 2000's when it was hosted on network 54.
BFD.
That and $2.00 will get me coffee at my favorite eatery.

Please take your condescension and sarcasm to yellow bullet.

I feel no need to outline my business or educational qualifications for you. I will focus on the OP.


Scotty Jay
used 2b RHP
 

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For the OP.

If your ultimate focus is maximum rpm and peak power then as I mentioned in earlier posts look for a 750.

A double pumper is always going to offer more midrange torque provided it is properly sized. Can be a bit cantankerous with a stock stall convertor too lol.

My comment that the 600 is adequate for now is based on the pic of the engine in a truck and the fact that you have a stealth intake and very mild build. That intake has very large runner cross section and less than stellar part throttle manners. Great at WOT though. The 600 will offer better throttle response due to higher venturi velocity. Again adequate for now.

We typically take our (local) clients vehicles for a test drive after they install our dyno'd engine. There is always a need for fine tuning vs the engine dyno as the operational parameters are different. Some are happy with the sharp throttle response the 600 provides while others are more focused on maximum power an opt for the larger carburetor. This in our truck builds.

For a lighter weight application we default to the 750.

We have a very specific type of carburetor we get from competition carbs in Nevada when dealing with large runner cross section intakes. It is a 650 DP that has modifications to flow 740 cfm while retaining the 650's high booster signal. Throttle response is razor sharp even on a CJ runner intake.

Tell us more about the application and what you expect out of your engine.

A performer intake will offer better drive-ability, transient response and throttled torque than your stealth.

Again if you are primarily focused on maximum power then a 750 vac sec carb with some spring tuning in the secondary will work for you with out the expense of the double pumper.

Hope this helps.


SJ
used 2b RHP


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LMAO, still beating your chest. I also feel I have no need to present my resume of nearly 50 years of doing this on Carbs,drag racing, street driven, mud racing, SCCA, at all altitudes and weather conditions. Test drive around the block in south Tacoma, doesn't tell you anything about 9,000 ft on a hot day.
You can always bring your dyno out here next year for a few races they run, Silver State Classic, Sept, starts at 7200' and goes 90 miles down to 2000 ft and who knows what the weather will be. And the Road race to Virginia City, in May. Start at 4200' and go to 7500' 3 miles, (timed) of switchbacks uncluding 4, 270 deg hair pin turns and it might be 85 degs or snow on the ground. And no guardrail.
 

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A 700 DP electric choke, dual feed, (center hung floats) would probably work best. IMO, because the lower CFM will give good start from a stand still, but still give you good pulling power up threw 3 rd gear. And not kill mileage to much, (why Ford liked 715/735s so much). The center hung work better then side hung because rocking/rolling, up/down hill, won't screw up the float setting as bad as a side hung's will. But it also needs the right air filter. Don't use one of those 1"x6" little paper elements. They will choke a 850 down to 600 fast and will cost you mileage and HP. Use at least an open element 3"x14" K&N, Wix or other good ones like that. 4" if it'll fit under your hood. They have the least air flow restrictions. The old enclosed air cleaner housing with a small snorkle is like trying to suck air threw a small straw. Even the air filter base can effect a carb's air flow characteristics. One that has the top cover down low almost covering the carb's airhorn will screw up the carb and make it run funking. Something a DP will do less of, then a Vac Sec which works by air signal a lot more of.
Carbs, no one size works for all and we all have our own preference and choices. That's why they make so many.
 

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LMAO, still beating your chest.

No dog in this fight. Gotten a lot of good advice from Scotty over the years. Haven't paid for it. Given. Don't be a dick. Not using a dyno you're either driving like a dick on the street or losing. 2 cents.
 

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LMAO, still beating your chest.

No dog in this fight. Gotten a lot of good advice from Scotty over the years. Haven't paid for it. Given. Don't be a dick. Not using a dyno you're either driving like a dick on the street or losing. 2 cents.
No dog in this fight but want to put 2 cents in? About the only cents you do have. Win a lot and lost a few as everyone does and has. Not all of us winners use a dyno, far more don't, then do.
So feel free to keep your dick and 2 cents, to yourself.
 

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No dog in this fight but want to put 2 cents in? About the only cents you do have. Win a lot and lost a few as everyone does and has. Not all of us winners use a dyno, far more don't, then do.
So feel free to keep your dick to yourself and your 2 cents, to yourself.
Appears someone needs a hug...................:rolleyes:
 
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