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AOD avail 91 thru 93 Ford pickups and vans with 460s
That's inaccurate.

If you read it online somewhere, the source you're citing is inaccurate. Ford NEVER offered the AOD/AODE/4R70-series of transmission in any vehicle, beyond Crown Victoria cop cars that had carbed 351Ws (up to '91), behind an engine bigger than a 302.

If it's a Ford truck and has the original Ford drivetrain in it, if it has a 351W/5.8 or 460/7.5 if either had a C6 (up to '89 for most trucks...up through '91 for special ordered models like F450s) or an E4OD in it, if not a ZF 5S-42 or ZF 5S-47 manual.
 

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Dave, any thought of just doing the E4OD gears in a C6 and regearing the rear end? Still only 3 gears, but the first, and to a lesser degree, second gear, woke my truck up, and I still kept the mild 3.25s for third gear. No electronics, fabbing, or anything special needed on the truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Right now the truck has plenty of power for my needs. The 460 runs great but running it on the interstate could be made better if it had higher gearing. My pickup is a '79 F350 two wheel drive Camper Special equipped with a Dana 70. The highest gear set I can get for it is about a 3.55 and while that's going in the right direction from the 4.10's it's probably not high enough to really be worth the effort. There were Dana 70's with 3.08 gears used in some non Ford trucks but those housings are made differently with an altered pinion location so they are different.

That's why I was thinking that the E40D swap might make a fun worthwhile project that wouldn't be terribly difficult.
 

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Right now the truck has plenty of power for my needs. The 460 runs great but running it on the interstate could be made better if it had higher gearing. My pickup is a '79 F350 two wheel drive Camper Special equipped with a Dana 70. The highest gear set I can get for it is about a 3.55 and while that's going in the right direction from the 4.10's it's probably not high enough to really be worth the effort. There were Dana 70's with 3.08 gears used in some non Ford trucks but those housings are made differently with an altered pinion location so they are different.

That's why I was thinking that the E40D swap might make a fun worthwhile project that wouldn't be terribly difficult.


Yeah, I was going to comment that simply swapping the R&P to a taller (lower numerically) gearset and leaving the C6 in the rig might be an easier and less expensive venture, but then you'd lose the torque multiplication of the 4.10 gears for towing/hauling/low speed grunt and acceleration.

I think you have a good basis in this thread to follow. Over the course of the E4OD/4R100-family of units, there were several updates and upgrades that Ford made to the unit(s) that prove to be a very worthwhile piece to include when you're building one - be it for a high power application or just for something you want to live as long as possible. Likewise, Ford made some updates to the units that proved to be detrimental to the longevity and capability of the transmissions. There's enough info found in a general Google search on these units to guide you to specific parts and modifications you should think about including in your units when you build one.

And to go back to an earlier reply in the thread...yeah even electronically controlled units and and will benefit from a shift improvement kit and, specifically, a "tuneable" (if you will) trans controller or reprogramming of the factory powertrain control module (in a rig that originally came with said transmission). The tuning of the controller, as I said, can and will allow you to change the shifting characteristics (line pressure, speed at which the shift is actuated, etc.) based on the driving characteristics the control module sees at any specific time...if you're just cruising along and not laying your foot into the stupid pedal, you might have the controller set up so that the transmission shifts at a lower vehicle speed and makes a softer shift more in tune with just normal driving. However, you can have that controller/PCM also programmed so that is sees if you're giving the foot-feed plenty of leg (i.e. you're hauling/towing a heavy load and accelerating from a stop), it might bump up the line pressure and make the shifts crisper and faster so as to prevent slip/flare-ups between gears when the rig/drivetrain is loaded pretty good.

I have no vested interest in Baumann nor any reason to promote them over anybody else. I've simply used their controllers and am familiar with them and know they're fairly simple and work well. www.becontrols.com
 

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Right now the truck has plenty of power for my needs. The 460 runs great but running it on the interstate could be made better if it had higher gearing. My pickup is a '79 F350 two wheel drive Camper Special equipped with a Dana 70. The highest gear set I can get for it is about a 3.55 and while that's going in the right direction from the 4.10's it's probably not high enough to really be worth the effort. There were Dana 70's with 3.08 gears used in some non Ford trucks but those housings are made differently with an altered pinion location so they are different.

That's why I was thinking that the E40D swap might make a fun worthwhile project that wouldn't be terribly difficult.
Ahhhhhh ok. I didn't realized it was geared so numerically high. I did a change from 3.5s to 3.25s for reasons unrelated to gearing numbers and I can say that the difference in cruise RPM was neglible. Tire size was more of a factor. I'm following this thread with interest.
 

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How about just changing the gears in the rear end to give yourself a final drive ratio with the C6 that's equivalent to the E40D in OD?

E40D .71 OD x 4.10's = 2.91.

You could run some 3.00's with the C6 and call it good, or at least see how it effects your mileage before going through all the hassle and expense of the swap.

I used to run 3.07's with 32 inch tires in my Scout and got 18mpg out of the 2bbl 345. Worked great. I could pull long grades in 2nd at 60mph and third gear was like OD in modern vehicles. Most guys I knew with Scouts were running 3.73's and 4.10's and getting 8-12mpg. I also had a TeraLow T-case to get the gearing down where it needed to be in 4-Lo, but you don't need to worry about that.

EDIT: Didn't see the part about gears not being available for the rear end. Still, changing to a nine inch rear might be easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I have a customer who buys and sells scrap, junk cars etc and when I asked him the other day he said that he thought he had an E40D core in about a '91 Ford pickup which should be perfect. I told him to bring it so that I can do some measuring. I know the overall transmission is longer but is it longer in the big fat part of the transmission or is that part a similar length?

I was under the truck yesterday and I think that about the only problem areas might be where my exhaust pipe from the left side runs and then crosses over to the right, maybe. And the only other potential problem might me interference with the front fuel tank which mounts inside of the frame on the left side. Parking brake cable runs through there but I don't see it being a problem. I'm thinking that it might even be possible to use the same cross member just cut the rivets, drill new holes and then bolt the brackets back into the frame rails a little farther back.
 

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I looked at doing this back some time ago for my dually. I researched the crap out of it & came to the conclusion that your looking at somewhere in the $3000 range to get everything to do it & thats if you can do some of it yourself.
My conclusion was to go with a set of 3:55 gears for my truck because thats the highest available for a Dana 70 rear end.
I just read about doing a 700r4 conversion on another post & I'm going to start another post to get some replies about this swap to see if it's worth it.
From my research it a hole lot of money for this conversion.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I know that years have passed since this thread was active but I've now FINALLY done the swap from the C6 to an E4OD transmission in my 79 F350 2 wheel drive pickup. A friend who builds transmissions got me a couple of cores, one for a case and one for hard parts including an output shaft with a speedometer provision. I built the transmission using those parts along with some updated parts including a roller style center support and newer style front pump. I also used the Transgo 4R100 "Tugger" shift kit and I'm controlling the whole thing with a US Shift Quick 2 computer.

All in all the change over was pretty straightforward and really the biggest factor is the overall length of the transmission vs the C6. The E4OD is about 4 inches longer than the C6 so I ended up having to make the front portion of the drive shaft shorter by 4 inches, put a dent in the front of the gas tank and make a new transmission cross member to get it to fit. I had to change out the speedometer cable to one that would plug into the speed sensor of the E4OD, flexplate and driveshaft yokes remained the same and the headers clear the new trans just like they did with the C6.

The shift lever is farther back on the E4OD so I had to build a "jack leg" linkage so that the rod from the steering column could attach just like it did on the C6. This wasn't too tough because the E4OD happens to have two nice bolt bosses in just about the right place to support the linkage.

My existing C6 cooler lines worked out pretty well with the E4OD the sizes were the same and while the front one hooked right up I had to add about 12 inches of line to reach the back fitting, no big deal.

Speaking of bolt bosses the E4OD is sort of weird in the bolt sizing department. While it says "Metric" on the bottom of the oil pan all of the fasteners that attach to the transmission are NOT metric. For instance the bolt bosses on the side are tapped 3/8-16!

Installing the Quick 2 controller took some time but it was pretty straightforward. The box itself has to be mounted in the passenger compartment so I put mine inside of the already virtually non existent due to AC glove box. I had to install a TPS on my Holley carburetor and run wiring for that along with running wires to the transmission solenoid connector, speed sensor and PRNDL switch. The neutral safety and backup light circuits also had to be rewired to work with the new switch.

How does it work?

So far, so good. I'm still waiting on my correct speedometer gear because the E4OD has a different number of drive teeth on the output shaft than the C6 but the transmission seems to shift well. Programming the Quick 2 is easy enough using their software on my PC and connecting using a USB cable. Driving around town it acts almost exactly the same as the C6. Low and 2nd are lower but I don't think its all that noticeable. Out on the road the truck is amazingly different. I put in a switch to turn the OD on and off as needed and it is astonishing to switch it on and off when running about 60mph. Normally in the past I would only run the truck about 62-65mph on the highway but now rolling along at 70-72mph happens at about 2250rpm which is just right.

Today I should have my speedometer gear and I'm planning on driving the truck to the city today to get the exhaust system finished up and to pick up a few things. I'm going to check the MPG and see how it does. In the past the truck would get about 10mpg running at under 65mph with the C6. Will I be able to get 12 while running 70? We'll see...

I can't see how the transmission will ever pay for itself in fuel economy because I just don't use the truck all that much. But if it makes the truck more practical to use on the highway it will be worth the effort.
 

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Dave,hate to tell you this but your mileage won't improve much.It will,however, improve your driving pleasure.As far as the Tugger kit,just got done with a 98 Power Stroke 4R100 and never noticed a whole lot of driveability improvement but the durability improvements probably makes it worth the money.Takes a while to put them in...even on the bench! My car has a 460,4R70W,Bendtsen adapter,Quick 4.Bauman set it up and it short shifts,OD at 25 mph.Kinda know how to reprogram the thing but it might be above my skill level.Any tips??
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I drove the truck to the city and back on Saturday and it did great. I don't know what the mileage was because even with my new speedometer gear it is still reading just a little too fast on the gauge as well as the computer.

If the controller is seeing the wrong speed it will upshift very early mine was farther off before but now its a lot better. Adjusting the shift points and the quality of each shift is easy to do on a PC using their software. One change I made to the baseline program was to make it only turn on the torque converter clutch above 1800rpm. Before it was set at 1400 which was way too low.

Once I get the right speedometer gear tomorrow I'm going to fine tune a few things on the shifts but overall it works good. About the same as my old C6 but the truck really rolls down the highway.
]
 

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Discussion Starter #32
An aftermarket 23 tooth speedometer gear ended up being just right in the truck. Yesterday I did another test drive and this time I had my wife come along with her laptop computer hooked up via USB. The tuning software works in real time with a cursor that floats around on the screen. It moves up with speed and over toward the right with throttle position. What was really interesting is to know in real time how much throttle was being used at any given time. Driving through town in high gear at about 30mph took about 10%. Running along down the interstate at 70mph takes about 25-30% throttle. What all of this does is allow you to easily see where the computer is on its "map" and this makes finding and fixing a problem area easy.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Last week we drove the truck out to central Kansas to visit my father-in-law for a few days. On the way out the transmission did great. Running along at 70-72mph I got 11.7mpg when I checked the mileage which is better than the 10mpg I got with the C6 while running at about 60-62mph.

While out there we loaded the truck up with stuff and headed home on Sunday. While running along on I-70 the transmission went out and had no gears except for park. I called a friend who hauled us along with the truck home. When I tore the transmission down I found that it had stripped the splines in the stock aluminum overdrive planetary.

I talked to several transmission guys who told me that this can be something that can just happen I'm still wondering... What I think might have caused the problem was that when I retrofitted my transmission with the roller style center support I did that using the '95 up parts. There was a "service" kit to do this upgrade and those parts are slightly different dimensionally. The inside of the OD shaft is the same diameter but the recess is slightly deeper on the service part for the older transmission because in the old ones the OD planet set is slightly longer. What's weird is that I checked this while building the trans and it was not bottoming out... It was close but not bottomed. The new cast iron planet that I'm installing along with a shorter input shaft has close to 1/2 inch of clearance down inside of the OD shaft.. Could this have been the cause? Or was I just pushing my luck by using the old aluminum planetary in the OD?

The transmission ran about 800 miles before this failure happened.
 

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You probably should have used the upgrade kit instead instead of the complete 95 center support assembly but I can't see where that caused the problem.The aluminum OD planetary probably just failed. Lot of times the failure is way worse than stripped splines.How much power in the motor?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
It's probably just one of those "who knows" things as to why it broke. I got the transmission put back together yesterday and today I got the truck put back together again and so far so good after about 35 miles of driving. My transmission is now equipped with the factory steel/iron four gear overdrive planetary, the shorter input shaft, a roller center support and a six gear forward planetary so I should be good to go. This engine made 330 horsepower and 510lbs/ft torque when I ran it on the dyno so nothing too powerful but it really does run well and this trans works great hopefully it'll keep working now!
 

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Dave,what did you use for a converter and are you happy with it? Reason I asked is I recently did a E4OD in a 97 Power Stroke. Trans was in beautiful condition with only 40K on the clock.Resealed everything and installed a Tugger kit,worked perfect for 5000 mi. Anyway,the owner went with the OEM converter because of the low and easy miles. The truck threw a P-1728 code,converter clutch slip.Lot of reasons for that so went to his place to check things out.Drove it and pulled back in his driveway...seal let go or the converter cracked and the trans emptied out where she sat.Lot of metal and fiber trash in the pan so everything has to come apart. again. I guess the lesson learned here is don't cheap out on the converter.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Dave,what did you use for a converter and are you happy with it? Reason I asked is I recently did a E4OD in a 97 Power Stroke. Trans was in beautiful condition with only 40K on the clock.Resealed everything and installed a Tugger kit,worked perfect for 5000 mi. Anyway,the owner went with the OEM converter because of the low and easy miles. The truck threw a P-1728 code,converter clutch slip.Lot of reasons for that so went to his place to check things out.Drove it and pulled back in his driveway...seal let go or the converter cracked and the trans emptied out where she sat.Lot of metal and fiber trash in the pan so everything has to come apart. again. I guess the lesson learned here is don't cheap out on the converter.
On my transmission I used a converter from Transgo FM64LX which is the one with four studs, a billet cover, the heavy duty bearings and a low stall. I've driven the truck quite a bit now and I think that the converter works great. I have not tested it but I think that the stall speed is slightly higher than my old stock C6 converter. Lock up is nice and solid almost like another shift. With the Bauman Quick 2 controller I only use the converter clutch in 3rd and or OD gears.

When I built the transmission I put in a Sonnax kit that replaces the plastic check valve in the back of the pump that can sometimes melt and cause problems by restricting the oil and burning up the converter and or the OD gear set.
 

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Thanks Dave! This deal I had going was a mess. Every last piece had to come apart and be washed. The pump was toast and replaced the solenoid pack as I wasn't comfortable with my wash out of the old one. Anyway,I'll see if they have the 6 lug version of your converter. I good with it if you like it. Also added the Sonnax check valve.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Thanks Dave! This deal I had going was a mess. Every last piece had to come apart and be washed. The pump was toast and replaced the solenoid pack as I wasn't comfortable with my wash out of the old one. Anyway,I'll see if they have the 6 lug version of your converter. I good with it if you like it. Also added the Sonnax check valve.
I know that Transtar also lists a super heavy duty multi disc torque converter for diesels, six studs, billet cover etc. That would probably be really good if the engine is modified. In my transmission I swapped it to the newer style pump too.
 
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