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Discussion Starter #1
FIRST I would urge anyone to perform a SEARCH to look for information related to their question. The intent is to have universally agreed upon FAQs, but the reality is that you'll learn more by going through posts for the full story on any question.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
What is the max RPM for stock rods??

WHAT IS THE MAX RPM RANGE FOR STOCK RODS?

The consensus is that the stock passenger car rods, and the CJ/Truck style are really of the same strength. The CJ rod does have additional meat around the rod bolt head, but most rod breakage in stock rods occurs in the middle of the beam.

With that said, 5500-6500 is the common range given for these rods. If you're trying to run a 4.14 0r 4.30" crank with these rods, then obviously piston speed goes up and it's best to stay towards 5500rpm. If you're running a 429 with light pistons, it may be possible to go 6500rpm. Consider piston speed and piston weight when making the decision. AS ALWAYS, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES IN A HIGH PERFORMANCE ENGINE SO BREAKAGE MAY OCCUR WITHIN A SUPPOSED "SAFE" RPM RANGE.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
HOW TO BUILD A 425-450HP 460ci

The request for information for a mild 425-450hp street motor comes up weekly, so I thought we'd compile a list of parts that will accomplish this goal. Obviously, there is quite a bit of room for interpretation and variance on parts, but a good SEARCH will help sure up any remaining questions.

750cfm Carb
Edelbrock Performer, Performer RPM, or Weiand Stealth
Hydraulic flat tappet cam with approx 215-220* intake/225-230* exhaust duration. Lift should be in the .525"+ area to take advantage of the quicker lobes allowed by larger diameter lifters in Fords.
Examples would be the Comp XE262H or Lunati 61602
Compression should be around 9:0-9.5:1
Stock rods and crank can be used with good resizing and good bolts used

Heads can be DOVE or D3VE
Exhaust valves should be increased to 1.75" size
Intake valve size does not need to be increased at this level, stainless valves are suggested over heavily used stockers
Port work on the exhaust side should be considered MANDATORY at this level. Thermactor removed, bowl blended to the larger seat, casting flash removed, exhaust bolt boss flattened. The better the work, the better it will run. To get to a real 450hp level, it would be very beneficial to at least clean up the intake side, the seat to bowl blend at minimum. A good 3 angle valve job is mandatory. A D3VE head does have enough potential for this build but may require more short turn work on the exhaust side to match the DOVE. An aggressive cam like the Lunati probably requires the screw in stud conversion on the D3VE as well.

Exhaust should be minimum 1 3/4" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with good flowing mufflers. Manifolds will absolutely not allow the engine to perform as expected.

Roller rockers are not mandatory, but suggested. A HV oil pump is not required at this level, as the RPM level doesn't dictate loose tolerances. Standard .0025 and .0030 on rods and main should work fine, a bit tighter would probably be fine as well since the motor shouldn't see anything over 5500rpm.

Good machining and port work should allow a motor like this to last forever, creating a solid 425-450hp at around 4500rpm and 520-530ft lbs near 3500rpm.
 

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Thank you Sir !!

This might be what I need. I need to see what size meats I can fit, and weigh it. Then find out whatever gears... could maybe put a 67 gal into 12's ??
 

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Hit the nail on the head

Excellent timing.
I'm considering a similar build for my '64 Galaxie 429. Making it a 460 and getting it into the 12's. This post hits the nail on the head.
One question do you think 3.50 or 3.70 rear gears will be enough? Am having fiberglass hood, fenders and bumbers installed as we speak. Have 3.00 open rear end now.
Thanks a lot

GT300TD
 

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Engine CI Chart

For(d) easy reference;(formula......Bore X Bore X Stroke X .7854 X 8 )

Stroke (in.) Bore (in.) Overbore (in.) Displacement (cu. in.)

3.590 4.360 stock 429


3.850 4.360 stock 460


3.850 4.390 0.030 466


3.850 4.400 0.040 468


3.850 4.420 0.060 473


3.850 4.440 0.080 477


4.140 4.360 stock 494


4.140 4.390 0.030 501


4.140 4.400 0.040 503


4.140 4.420 0.060 508


4.140 4.440 0.080 513


4.300 4.360 stock 514


4.300 4.390 0.030 521


4.300 4.400 0.040 523


4.300 4.420 0.060 528


4.300 4.440 0.080 533


4.500 4.360 stock 537


4.500 4.390 0.030 545


4.400 4.400 0.040 547


4.500 4.420 0.060 552


4.500 4.440 0.080 557
 

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As with most forums I visit, the same dumb old questions get old quick and eventually no one is interested enough to respond. In addition, the same dumb old questions clutter up the board. They waste time of the more experienced members since the subject line of these questions usually doesn't capture the question well. It's a pet peeve of mine to see the same questions over and over again. It's as if the person is too lazy to search and wants someone else to do the work for them. Although, I'm guilty of asking them myself on occasion.
 

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what would i have to do to that setup to pull the max TQ a little lower in the RPM range? Trying to build up my BB for a trail/mud rig. I think i would want some power a little lower in the RPM range.
 

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Ditch Baby

Cut and Paste the engine build from Chilly above and then post that with your question in the main part of the forum. Not too many people read this post.
 

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chilly said:
HOW TO BUILD A 425-450HP 460ci

The request for information for a mild 425-450hp street motor comes up weekly, so I thought we'd compile a list of parts that will accomplish this goal. Obviously, there is quite a bit of room for interpretation and variance on parts, but a good SEARCH will help sure up any remaining questions.

750cfm Carb
Edelbrock Performer, Performer RPM, or Weiand Stealth
Hydraulic flat tappet cam with approx 215-220* intake/225-230* exhaust duration. Lift should be in the .525"+ area to take advantage of the quicker lobes allowed by larger diameter lifters in Fords.
Examples would be the Comp XE262H or Lunati 61602
Compression should be around 9:0-9.5:1
Stock rods and crank can be used with good resizing and good bolts used

Heads can be DOVE or D3VE
Exhaust valves should be increased to 1.75" size
Intake valve size does not need to be increased at this level, stainless valves are suggested over heavily used stockers
Port work on the exhaust side should be considered MANDATORY at this level. Thermactor removed, bowl blended to the larger seat, casting flash removed, exhaust bolt boss flattened. The better the work, the better it will run. To get to a real 450hp level, it would be very beneficial to at least clean up the intake side, the seat to bowl blend at minimum. A good 3 angle valve job is mandatory. A D3VE head does have enough potential for this build but may require more short turn work on the exhaust side to match the DOVE. An aggressive cam like the Lunati probably requires the screw in stud conversion on the D3VE as well.

Exhaust should be minimum 1 3/4" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with good flowing mufflers. Manifolds will absolutely not allow the engine to perform as expected.

Roller rockers are not mandatory, but suggested. A HV oil pump is not required at this level, as the RPM level doesn't dictate loose tolerances. Standard .0025 and .0030 on rods and main should work fine, a bit tighter would probably be fine as well since the motor shouldn't see anything over 5500rpm.

Good machining and port work should allow a motor like this to last forever, creating a solid 425-450hp at around 4500rpm and 520-530ft lbs near 3500rpm.
What would be the ideal Ignition setup for this build?

Thanks,
Shawn
 

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shawnm said:
chilly said:
HOW TO BUILD A 425-450HP 460ci

The request for information for a mild 425-450hp street motor comes up weekly, so I thought we'd compile a list of parts that will accomplish this goal. Obviously, there is quite a bit of room for interpretation and variance on parts, but a good SEARCH will help sure up any remaining questions.

750cfm Carb
Edelbrock Performer, Performer RPM, or Weiand Stealth
Hydraulic flat tappet cam with approx 215-220* intake/225-230* exhaust duration. Lift should be in the .525"+ area to take advantage of the quicker lobes allowed by larger diameter lifters in Fords.
Examples would be the Comp XE262H or Lunati 61602
Compression should be around 9:0-9.5:1
Stock rods and crank can be used with good resizing and good bolts used

Heads can be DOVE or D3VE
Exhaust valves should be increased to 1.75" size
Intake valve size does not need to be increased at this level, stainless valves are suggested over heavily used stockers
Port work on the exhaust side should be considered MANDATORY at this level. Thermactor removed, bowl blended to the larger seat, casting flash removed, exhaust bolt boss flattened. The better the work, the better it will run. To get to a real 450hp level, it would be very beneficial to at least clean up the intake side, the seat to bowl blend at minimum. A good 3 angle valve job is mandatory. A D3VE head does have enough potential for this build but may require more short turn work on the exhaust side to match the DOVE. An aggressive cam like the Lunati probably requires the screw in stud conversion on the D3VE as well.

Exhaust should be minimum 1 3/4" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with good flowing mufflers. Manifolds will absolutely not allow the engine to perform as expected.

Roller rockers are not mandatory, but suggested. A HV oil pump is not required at this level, as the RPM level doesn't dictate loose tolerances. Standard .0025 and .0030 on rods and main should work fine, a bit tighter would probably be fine as well since the motor shouldn't see anything over 5500rpm.

Good machining and port work should allow a motor like this to last forever, creating a solid 425-450hp at around 4500rpm and 520-530ft lbs near 3500rpm.
What would be the ideal Ignition setup for this build?

Thanks,
Shawn
Your question might be answered better as a new post in the Engine Tech section.

IMO a factory Ford Dura Spark distrubutor that has been recurved with a simple MSD 6al ignition box would work fine.
 

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chilly said:
HOW TO BUILD A 425-450HP 460ci

The request for information for a mild 425-450hp street motor comes up weekly, so I thought we'd compile a list of parts that will accomplish this goal. Obviously, there is quite a bit of room for interpretation and variance on parts, but a good SEARCH will help sure up any remaining questions.

750cfm Carb
Edelbrock Performer, Performer RPM, or Weiand Stealth
Hydraulic flat tappet cam with approx 215-220* intake/225-230* exhaust duration. Lift should be in the .525"+ area to take advantage of the quicker lobes allowed by larger diameter lifters in Fords.
Examples would be the Comp XE262H or Lunati 61602
Compression should be around 9:0-9.5:1
Stock rods and crank can be used with good resizing and good bolts used

Heads can be DOVE or D3VE
Exhaust valves should be increased to 1.75" size
Intake valve size does not need to be increased at this level, stainless valves are suggested over heavily used stockers
Port work on the exhaust side should be considered MANDATORY at this level. Thermactor removed, bowl blended to the larger seat, casting flash removed, exhaust bolt boss flattened. The better the work, the better it will run. To get to a real 450hp level, it would be very beneficial to at least clean up the intake side, the seat to bowl blend at minimum. A good 3 angle valve job is mandatory. A D3VE head does have enough potential for this build but may require more short turn work on the exhaust side to match the DOVE. An aggressive cam like the Lunati probably requires the screw in stud conversion on the D3VE as well.

Exhaust should be minimum 1 3/4" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with good flowing mufflers. Manifolds will absolutely not allow the engine to perform as expected.

Roller rockers are not mandatory, but suggested. A HV oil pump is not required at this level, as the RPM level doesn't dictate loose tolerances. Standard .0025 and .0030 on rods and main should work fine, a bit tighter would probably be fine as well since the motor shouldn't see anything over 5500rpm.

Good machining and port work should allow a motor like this to last forever, creating a solid 425-450hp at around 4500rpm and 520-530ft lbs near 3500rpm.

What kind of power number would be made if a 429 instead of 460 rotating assembly was used?
 

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What kind of power number would be made if a 429 instead of 460 rotating assembly was used?
According to my calculator, given the same cam and heads, etc. the 460 will develop about 50 HP more than the 429. This is partly due to an increase of about 1/2 point in the compression ratio from the longer stroke.

If you change the head chamber or the piston dish to make up for the compression difference then it's about 30 HP.
 

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old questions

I have been just as guilty.
But, in defense of others, sometimes it's too difficult to figure out how to do a search. Not in this forum but, others have been nightmares, ex. comodo firewall ugh....
anyhoo, my 2 pennies.
 

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Compression Ratio

-Compression ratio is not figured out using stroke.

Ratios Like 9:1 12:1 etc.....

Are figured out using CC of head volume, and piston combined when the piston is at TDC.

Now compression measured on a gage YES. For sure, assuming two identical motors one with a slightly longer stroke will draw more air into the same amount of space, and therefore create More pound of compression on your gage.

But we'll try not to confuse the two.
 

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Re: Engine CI Chart

Ronzo said:
For(d) easy reference;(formula......Bore X Bore X Stroke X .7854 X 8 )

Stroke (in.) Bore (in.) Overbore (in.) Displacement (cu. in.)

3.590 4.360 stock 429


3.850 4.360 stock 460


3.850 4.390 0.030 466


3.850 4.400 0.040 468


3.850 4.420 0.060 473


3.850 4.440 0.080 477


4.140 4.360 stock 494


4.140 4.390 0.030 501


4.140 4.400 0.040 503


4.140 4.420 0.060 508


4.140 4.440 0.080 513


4.300 4.360 stock 514


4.300 4.390 0.030 521


4.300 4.400 0.040 523


4.300 4.420 0.060 528


4.300 4.440 0.080 533


4.500 4.360 stock 537


4.500 4.390 0.030 545


4.400 4.400 0.040 547


4.500 4.420 0.060 552


4.500 4.440 0.080 557
Are these all possible with a production block? If so, is .080 over the MAX bore? In other words, if I have a block that is .080 over and something happens where it needs to be bored am I done with that block?
 
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