Experienced opinions on 429 output

2608 Views 10 Replies 7 Participants Last post by The Mad Porter, Aug 7, 2010

OregonHighboy

Discussion Starter · Aug 5, 2010

Great forum here! Has been and will be a valuable resource for me.

I recently bought a '79 F-250 custom 4x4. I bought it to tow 5+tons of boat and trailer from N.CA to N.WA and it did the trick (despite using too low octane fuel as I later found out due to pre-ignition and dieseling problems).

The truck has a transplanted D1VE 6015 AA block, C8VE-E heads, 2bbl carb (says motorcraft on it?). I have paperwork for the rebuild and it has the following info: bored .30 over; Molly rings, balanced; Crank .010-.010; Cam 262-272;, 479-504 lift, etc.

I am a newb but a growing enthusiast when it comes to motor tech, but I was hoping somebody might give me some idea of the HP/Torque output? I know it is not a whole lot to go on, but any ideas would be appreciated

I love the old Ford Highboys and I want to fix this truck up in the near future. It still has low miles on the rebuild, it can get up and go and seems to have gobs of torque, but I would like to get it up to the 500hp range in the future.

Thanks

Reno

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tall69

· #2 · Aug 5, 2010

OregonHighboy said:
Great forum here! Has been and will be a valuable resource for me.

I recently bought a '79 F-250 custom 4x4. I bought it to tow 5+tons of boat and trailer from N.CA to N.WA and it did the trick (despite using too low octane fuel as I later found out due to pre-ignition and dieseling problems).

The truck has a transplanted D1VE 6015 AA block, C8VE-E heads, 2bbl carb (says motorcraft on it?). I have paperwork for the rebuild and it has the following info: bored .30 over; Molly rings, balanced; Crank .010-.010; Cam 262-272;, 479-504 lift, etc.

I am a newb but a growing enthusiast when it comes to motor tech, but I was hoping somebody might give me some idea of the HP/Torque output? I know it is not a whole lot to go on, but any ideas would be appreciated

I love the old Ford Highboys and I want to fix this truck up in the near future. It still has low miles on the rebuild, it can get up and go and seems to have gobs of torque, but I would like to get it up to the 500hp range in the future.

Thanks

Reno

It's probably got cast builder pistons with a giant dish and poor deck height putting it in the 9:1 compression range. The two barrel is probably the biggest limit right now. I'd guess in the 250HP range with 480lb-ft of torque. Putting a decent dual plane 4 barrel intake (Performer, factory cast iron), and a decent 4 barrel Holley (750cfm vacuum) would probably gain you 20HP. If you have cast exhaust manifolds, pitch them for a cheap set of headers as well.

You're going to need a lot more of everything if you want 500HP. You can build 500HP with the shortblock, but it's probably not recommended if you want it to live. Fully port the heads, a lot more cam, bigger intake and carb, etc.

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bigblok86ranger

· #3 · Aug 5, 2010

My opinion would be to optimise your combo for best torque and don't worry about horsepower. You will kill low-end power by trying to make 500hp and probably not be happy with the way it will end up. Personally I would set a goal of 6-650ft/lb of torque. Thats me though you may be different.

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OregonHighboy

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 6, 2010

tall69 said:
It's probably got cast builder pistons with a giant dish and poor deck height putting it in the 9:1 compression range. The two barrel is probably the biggest limit right now. I'd guess in the 250HP range with 480lb-ft of torque. Putting a decent dual plane 4 barrel intake (Performer, factory cast iron), and a decent 4 barrel Holley (750cfm vacuum) would probably gain you 20HP. If you have cast exhaust manifolds, pitch them for a cheap set of headers as well.

You're going to need a lot more of everything if you want 500HP. You can build 500HP with the shortblock, but it's probably not recommended if you want it to live. Fully port the heads, a lot more cam, bigger intake and carb, etc.

Wow! surprised that you only estimate in the 250hp range. Torque seems about right to me based on what I have read about the motor and how it drives. All info I have read to date has indicated that there would be no problem getting 500hp out of this motor and I assumed it was a lot closer given it is basically a '71 block with '68 heads. I have read that these are Cj parts. Is this mistaken?

Not that it makes much difference, but it does have 3in exhaust.

Reno

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bosshoss

· #5 · Aug 6, 2010

500 hp is no problem with these motors given the right parts combo. You will however sacrifice some bottom end torque to get there. If you want the truck to pull heavy loads etc. you might consider sacrificing the big horsepower number to keep the torque down low. This is all relative to a certain extent. Just depends on the intended use and your pocketbook.

dkp

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Brad Johnson

· #6 · Aug 6, 2010 (Edited)

OregonHighboy said:
Wow! surprised that you only estimate in the 250hp range. I have read that these are Cj parts. Is this mistaken?
Reno

Yes.

Problem with the 429 is that they all become CJs or SCJs when someone starts to sell or talk about them. Given the 2v carb it was likely a garden variety LTD or Wagon donor engine.

As mentioned above, if the rebuild wasn't done properly you can get into problems with CR. Also, I wouldn't put it past the builder to have used a post-71 timing chain. Check your build sheet to see if a part number is specified so you can verify.

The cam is actually a pretty decent choice in terms of your application but the carb is going to kill the power just where you need it. A 500cfm 2v on a 429 will fall over at around 3200-3500 rpm (earlier if it's a factory carb). It simply won't flow enough air. You need 650cfm, minimum, and that's only if you intent to redline it no higher than 4500. If you intend to push it past there, at 750 is darn near mandatory. Vacuum secondaries would be best in your application.

You've actually got a pretty good foundation to build on. I'd leave the bottom end alone for now. The cam is right for you and you didn't mention it burning oil. Pull the heads and let somone like Scott massage them a little. Button everything up and top it with a Performer intake (the non-RPM version) and a good old 750 vac secondary carb. Headers with smaller (1-7/8") primaries will seal the deal. That setup will have you somewhere in the 350-375 hp range with a ton of torque. Chances are you could benefit from some distributor work, too. Some careful timing curve tweaks can reap big rewards.

If you are going to build for power in the future I'd be tempted to lay aside the 429 crank and swap in a 460 rotating assembly. The extra 30 ci will be that much more twist towards your power goals and chances are someone has a crank just laying around that you can pick up for a song.

Visit Scott Johnston's web side for proven build combos, including some that are exactly what you're trying to accomplish. Scott is "The Mad Porter" here on the forum.

Brad

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OregonHighboy

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 7, 2010 (Edited)

Thank you all for the feedback so far. BTW who is Scott and what is the link to his site? I'm going to be busy this next year, but want to pull this truck apart after I get some time and space to do the work. It actually runs great on premium fuel, can pull just about anything, but the acceleration is not what I am looking for. Any suggestions for a distributor? I figure I'll start planning out what I'm going to build in the meantime.

Thanks again,

Reno

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95lightiningguy

· #8 · Aug 7, 2010

http://reincarnation-automotive.com/

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OregonHighboy

Discussion Starter · #9 · Aug 7, 2010

Brad Johnson said:
The cam is actually a pretty decent choice in terms of your application but the carb is going to kill the power just where you need it. A 500cfm 2v on a 429 will fall over at around 3200-3500 rpm (earlier if it's a factory carb). It simply won't flow enough air. You need 650cfm, minimum, and that's only if you intent to redline it no higher than 4500. If you intend to push it past there, at 750 is darn near mandatory. Vacuum secondaries would be best in your application.

You've actually got a pretty good foundation to build on. I'd leave the bottom end alone for now. The cam is right for you and you didn't mention it burning oil. Pull the heads and let somone like Scott massage them a little. Button everything up and top it with a Performer intake and a good old 750 vac secondary carb. Headers with smaller (1-7/8") primaries will seal the deal. That setup will have you somewhere in the 350-375 hp range with a ton of torque. Chances are you could benefit from some distributor work, too. I little judicious timing curve changes can reap big rewards.

Thanks for the link! I go throughTacoma all the time.

Brad,

What do you mean by "massage a little"? that doesn't sound too spendy

.

Anybody know a good place to pick up the intake, carb and headers?

I like the suggestion above and might look into that for now.

Great info!

Reno

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Brad Johnson

· #10 · Aug 7, 2010 (Edited)

OregonHighboy said:
Brad,

What do you mean by "massage a little"? that doesn't sound too spendy.

Reno

Basic port matching and general cleanup of the tunnels and chambers. In your application it could easily get you another 15-20 HP. More if you go with headers, a good intake, and some careful tuning. No, it's not too spendy compared to lots of other mods and you have a good set of heads to start with.

Visit Scott's web site (Reincarnation, linked above). He has builds from mild to wild, including builds for tow vehicles, all documented on the site and complete with pics and dyno numbers. He can also set you up with a recurved distributor.

*Edit to Add*

Looks like Scott's new web site doesn't have the engine build section the old site did. Give him a call. He's good people.

Brad

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The Mad Porter

· #11 · Aug 7, 2010

The new site has a fresh set of primary pages however all of the old stuff is there. Some i have neglected to link properly as of yet.

Here is a peak...

http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Knownenginecombinationswithdynoorrackprovenperformance.html

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