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Discussion Starter #1
Has there ever been a BBF cylinder head comparison?im searching all over the net and cant find ANY articles where they test the Trick Flow Streets. I dont want just head flow data but an actual buildup would be interesting. They should do a comparison on a 460 (or stroker) vs. edelbrock heads and other heads in its class.Has anybody HERE done a comparison? that is, using the same cam and intake and things like that. Im talking about out of the box not ported,because unless its CNC, no two port jobs are really the same so the integrity of the test would be sacrificed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
whoever has the means i guess. maybe some people here, or some magazine, nobody specifically since the topic of interest isnt really "they" but the results themselves
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Phantasea466 said:
Look in the engine build section of this forum. Specifically the 512 that the Evans twins :p put together and dynoed. Impressive numbers with the TFS street heads.

If you have time, you could make a post with several similar combinations on the engine build forum as a comparison :idea:
i know, but thats the thing though. It wouldnt really be a fair comparison if two engines had different displacements or different cam specs or carbs, or having one set of heads with better port work done than the others. Thats why im interested in looking at out of the box results so there are less variables and to at least get good baseline numbers, im surprised this hasnt been done yet thats all.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Phantasea466 said:
The cam for one particluar type head may not be optimum for another type head.
you think that would still be a major issue if the heads had the same port and valve sizes? basically id like to see an actual undoctored TFS head vs Edelbrock shootout.
 

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I'm no expert however I think that each head will need a slightly different combination for optimum performance. i.e. Through R&D Bob at D&D has specific type cams that work best with Edelbrock heads, another i.e. Lem and Charlie have certain spec cams that work best with TFS heads etc.........

Just my observation, how much they will vary is a good question. Maybe someone like Lem, Scotty J, Charlie, Randy or Bob can give us some answers.



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One of the reasons you can not find this kind of comparison is we have no magazines that are dedicated to the big block ford. You see all kinds of shootouts on small block heads but its hard enough for a big block to just make print let alone an extensive test like you are talking about. Plus I don't think Edelbrock, TFS or Ford would want to donate a set of their heads knowing that the Kaase head will whip their butts in a test like this. I think Charlie's pecking order and what Scott has posted on here is about the best your going to find until we get more media support.
 

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MauriSSSio said:
Phantasea466 said:
The cam for one particluar type head may not be optimum for another type head.
you think that would still be a major issue if the heads had the same port and valve sizes? basically id like to see an actual undoctored TFS head vs Edelbrock shootout.
If the heads have the same port and valve sizes then most likely there isn't going to be enough of a difference in power output to make testing both worthwhile. The things you would want to look for is the heads with the most meat so that you can get the most extensive port work done possible, at least that's what I, as a head porter, look for. That and a port with a decent shape in the first place. Some of the heads are quite a bit better than others, but most on here who have dealt with them could tell you which to use and you wouldn't go wrong. Maybe instead of asking which head is best, give some people an idea of what you want to build and ask them what head would be adequate for what you want to do. Unless you're looking for that last half hp, and face it, most of you out there aren't even going to notice it, an in depth comparison like that isn't going to be worthwhile for you. Well, that's my two cents anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
moparman said:
MauriSSSio said:
Phantasea466 said:
The cam for one particluar type head may not be optimum for another type head.
you think that would still be a major issue if the heads had the same port and valve sizes? basically id like to see an actual undoctored TFS head vs Edelbrock shootout.
If the heads have the same port and valve sizes then most likely there isn't going to be enough of a difference in power output to make testing both worthwhile. The things you would want to look for is the heads with the most meat so that you can get the most extensive port work done possible, at least that's what I, as a head porter, look for. That and a port with a decent shape in the first place. Some of the heads are quite a bit better than others, but most on here who have dealt with them could tell you which to use and you wouldn't go wrong. Maybe instead of asking which head is best, give some people an idea of what you want to build and ask them what head would be adequate for what you want to do. Unless you're looking for that last half hp, and face it, most of you out there aren't even going to notice it, an in depth comparison like that isn't going to be worthwhile for you. Well, that's my two cents anyway.
thing is, ive seen edelbrocks listed as flowing as little as 318cfm and the TFS heads flowing 350cfm, this is a HUGE difference in power potential if the difference is indeed that great (which i doubt but with edelbrock lower in the "pecking order" im sure the edel. owners would be interested in how much HP theyre leaving on the table), also the TFS head is said to flow better on the exhaust, either way it hasnt been proven how much HP this is actually worth, hence a shootout is necessary.
Im interested in most HP under 7000RPM. with stock exhaust location and stock type pistons.
another question If the edelbrock make less power given equal builds, in which applications would they be considered over the TFS?
 

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It is all about time and money . I for one , do not have the resourses to test everything . Having said that , if Edelbrock or TFS wanted to do a heads up test to prove which is better let them pay the bill . Then again if they used the normal magazine venue....the MFR. that PAID them to do the article WILL win .
Then again..if TFS and Edel. will send an engine and heads to cornfield Corntucky and pay for the dyno time....I'll donate my time to get the answer to your question .
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Lem Evans said:
It is all about time and money . I for one , do not have the resourses to test everything . Having said that , if Edelbrock or TFS wanted to do a heads up test to prove which is better let them pay the bill . Then again if they used the normal magazine venue....the MFR. that PAID them to do the article WILL win .
Then again..if TFS and Edel. will send an engine and heads to cornfield Corntucky and pay for the dyno time....I'll donate my time to get the answer to your question .
if they pay for time, how is that "donating"?. I dont know why there arent ANY TFS articles. If i had money id test both,but being an uneducated hispanic male in the bay area, i dont have much $$$
 

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Discussion Starter #17
ky mustang said:
I got a 466 with tfs streets find somebody with the edelbrocks bring them to Ky along with 2 sets of head gaskets and I will give you the answer . :lol: No dyno queen , a time slip 8)
that would be perfect!
 

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I said dyno TIME . The "time" I'm speaking of would be to change heads etc. and tune-up...I do not own a dyno ...those that do will want to get paid ....what are you DONATING ? Questions I suspect !
Give us a break...education , hispanic , male , bay[which one?] and how much $ you have aint an issue .
Like Ky Mustang [Randy Moore] said ...put it on the track....no head gaskets though...reuse the A441 FRPP deals....two sets of intake gaskets instead :wink:
 

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truk said:
and the pecking order is????? for us that dont have a memory or printer dont work :?




1. FRPP Kaase designed SCJ and the soon to be released Kaase designed P-51 head.
2. The Blue Thunder "B" head which is the one with the raised exhaust port and the Chevy style flange pattern.
3&4 (tied) Blue Thunder with the raised exhaust port and Ford bolt pattern, and the TFS Street Heat head, again with a raised exhaust port and Ford bolt pattern.
5,6,7,8,9&10 Big log jam here, but we have the old Ford A-429 heads, the Blue Thunder CJ head with standard exhaust port location, the old style TFS CJ head, and the three different versions of the Edelbrock RPM/CJ heads.
11,12&? We have the cast iron production DOOE-R CJ head and the DOVE heads along with others such as the Police Interceptor head and etc. I am not saying these cast iron heads are any worse than the big batch of alum. heads I listed right above. They just heavier!

Probally more importantly than the pecking order of the heads is who you choose to do the valve job, the porting and flow testing of the heads. In other words, the quality of the work. I have a seen good quality Blue Thunder "B" heads outflow poor quality EX 514 heads for example and they are in two different families. What I'm saying is as head that is lower in the pecking order can surpass a head that is above it due to being properly prepped.

Charlie

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I found this by searching for "pecking order" . There is a ton of archived info in the " Engine Tech Archive" from here and the old forum. You can really learn a lot by going through it.
Charlie posted this before the new P-51 heads was released .
 
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Some one here needs to spend less money on the magazine subscriptions (mauriSSSio) and more time in the garage........... :roll:

Guys just offered you the tests your looking for !?!?!? and even better than the dyno, the Guys are offering to test the parts a car !!!! Real world no BS, Time to buck up, big boy !!
 
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