[BigBlockRanger]

Really starting to consider a 'street roller' in the 545, but am uncertain because I hear of soooooo many solid roller lifter failures.

This is gonna be a motor that sees highway time to the track (100 mi each way) and don't want to be stranded by the side of the road because a stupid roller lifter decided to come apart whilst motoring down the road.

Or should I just stick with plan "A" -> a regular flat tappet hydraulic cam? The only thing that freaks me out about that is the HIGH frequency of wiped lobes. Never had one go flat yet, but I *really* don't want to build this motor twice.

 

[Guest]

Roller Lifters

I think the rule of thumb is about 100 "hard" passes. I don't know how to factor in street miles. I pushed the envelope & it bit me. I had about 125 passes & #8 exhaust lifter failed. Nothing but the pin left in the lifter body. Luckily besides the cam, there was only a few minor scratches on a couple of cylinders. Still camshaft,lifters, & springs aint cheap. Plus I had to tear the whole motor apart to clean it. Oh well, live & learn. If you do go with a roller, just keep a good check on the lash settings. Good luck.

 

[chilly]

Many of the roller lifter issues have been addressed with the high quality rollers being built. They use better materials, and more importantly, they pressure feed oil to the roller so it sees plenty of lube instead of relying on oil splash. I wouldn't be scared to run one.

Matter of fact, I'd be more scared to try to break in an aggressive flat tappet cam nowadays....

 

[rmcomprandy]

MAINTAINANCE is what it's ALL about...

Street roller set-ups are just as reliable as any other as long as you maintain the correct valve lash or a little tighter and don't allow them to stay dormant, (not run for a while), for extended periods of time.

 

[96Mustang460cid]

Not to throw a fork in the proverbial works, but I'm swapping back to a hydraulic cam (from a solid roller).

After spending the time researching and the money to buy and install a street solid roller, I am just too nervous about my motor and am letting the power 'sit on the table' for now.

I have had this motor apart a couple of times (within 2,500 street miles), but nothing specifically has happened with the lifters. I lost oil psi 800 miles from home because my lash opened up to >.1" and I broke a poly lock. I set my lash two days before leaving on the trip. I still don't know exactly why the lash opened up so much.

I may end up putting this cam in another motor, but I'm not really sure at this point. I will send my lifters to the factory and they will check them for free.

At least with a hydraulic cam, you're basically 'free and clear' after the intial break in. You won't have to worry about it after a certain number of passes or street miles. If you go with an agressive hydraulic (like I have), do a search on the oils that still have zinc in them. And as an extra measure of safety, use a bottle of the GM EOS for the break in.

Have a good day!
Michael

 

[XEngr]

Big Springs

Probably most of the issues with roller cam failures are associated with springs with enough open pressure to hold up a corner of a car.

 

[6cyl3spd]

Since when are solid flats so horrible?

seems like if your concerned about roller lifter failures this would be the compromise. With a solid roller you would have had to check lash anyway.. :wink:

 

[BigBlockRanger]

Re: Big Springs

Probably most of the issues with roller cam failures are associated with springs with enough open pressure to hold up a corner of a car.

Actually, I have heard the converse as well. That it isn't high spring pressures that kill roller lifters, it is low spring pressure that does not control the valvetrain properly, essentially pounding the lifters apart.

RPM will be limited to 6000 in this motor, so I am thinking hard about using a XR292R in it as I have seen suggested on here. The hyd cam option I was thinking was a Lunati 31605. Comparing the two in DD2003, with all my other motor specs inputted shows them to be dead even until you get up to about 5000 and the solid roller keeps pulling whereas the hyd starts levelling off. I'd love to have it pull hard to right up to my self imposed redline. If they just weren't so dang expensive....

 

[ByronRACE]

What about lash.

What about lash specs for a solid roller valvetrain. I've found that the lash cold vs hot hardly moves at all in my case. Crane stainless rockers, 3/8" pushrods, relatively mild solid roller cam, girdle. Leaving the lash as wide as they want you to, I'd think it'd put a lot more wear and tear on the lifters as they smack around with all that slop in there.

Anyone have a thought about this? It seems to me they're setting lash awfully loose; especially considering street/strip duty use.

 

[jpierce55]

Don't forget with the roller you have a distributor gear good for 3000 miles, and anything over .650 lift is suppose to have short spring life.

I have never bought into the roller cam is "cheap" horsepower. The cost of components, machining, and ESPECIALLY maintenence is not worth it. Spend the money somplace else. That is my unpopular opinion.

 

[96Mustang460cid]

Re: Big Springs

The hyd cam option I was thinking was a Lunati 31605.

That's the exact camshaft I have sitting on my coffee table right now. If you're imposing a 6k redline on yourself, I believe that cam pulls to 6500. Either way, though, I thought that cam looked real nice too.

Have a good day!
Michael

 

[BigBlockRanger]

In my DD2003 testing, (I know I know) it *really* favored well vs Comp's XE series hyd cams I tested it against, that's why I chose it.

Makes power to 6500 in a 460, but will probably be all done by 6000 in the 545.

Waterslinger also has this cam in his boat.


When are you swapping yours in? :?:

 

[96Mustang460cid]

Out of curiosity, what is DD2003 testing? Ya, you're right about your larger motor being done sooner than my lil' 460.

When are you swapping yours in? :?:

As soon as I find another block and have it machined, I'll be going back together with this camshaft.

I'm assuming Waterslinger is happy with the cam? How are it's manners? Idle?

Have a good day!
Michael

 

[BigBlockRanger]

DD2003 = Desktop Dyno 2003 Pretty neat for comparing different combos and I have learned a ton just messing around with it.

I don't really know the mannerisms of the cam, but this is what he said on the 54 forum when I asked about it:

I run that cam in my boat. 520cid Edelbrock heads, 9.? to 1.
It works great, very fast to rev and pulls hard. Hard chop sounds great.

 

[96Mustang460cid]

I run that cam in my boat. 520cid Edelbrock heads, 9.? to 1. It works great, very fast to rev and pulls hard. Hard chop sounds great.

That's very cool! I used to have a different Lunati cam in this motor (230* and .550" or so) and it had a nice, mean idle. After switching to my more agressive solid roller, I actually lost a lot of that. I'm looking forwards to getting it back :twisted: .

Have a good day!
Michael

 

[ByronRACE]

Don't forget with the roller you have a distributor gear good for 3000 miles, and anything over .650 lift is suppose to have short spring life.

Why would a composite steel distributor gear designed for this application only offer 3000 miles of service? Bronze, yes...composite steel, I'm suprised. I don't have enough experience to say, but the manufacturer says the composite steel gear lasts virtually forever.

 

[dragtruck]

I have a...........

buddy that swears by a roller on the street,he has over 100k on the same solid roller in his 428 and he thats really long trips and never has a problem,I built a 5.0 form my bro's stang,and he put in a motorsport cam that is 2 sizes larger than stock,and we reused his factory hyd roller lifters that had 300k on them and he has put another 100k and have had no problems,I have read several articles on roller vs flat and what I have gathered is that a roller does not out do a flat until your .050 duration gets over 240+ then the roller is going to make more HP,but at any duration the flat out does the roller in the .10 and lower lift range.When breaking in a flat cam use as pure as you can find a cam lube w/ moly disulfide or pure molydisulfide (crane cams has the most amount of molyD) and do not exceed over 300# on the cam nose on break in and run the engine at least 100 miles before installing you heavy springs.I hate hydraulic lifters,so I run only solids on the street w/dual springs and have no problems,but I also make sure I have alot of oil going to my lifters.As stated in another post,the never rollers have pressurized oil going to the rollers now so failure is going to be less and I imagine if you don't get carried away with lift and duration a roller would work fine on the street and if anything less friction = more power.

 

[Mike_R_SCJ]

street rollers

I know there are lots of pros and cons, but I'll throw my 2 cents worth in.

I've had very good luck with street roller cams. I ran a comp cams 300R street roller (300/300 adv dur. 255/255 dur @.050. .663"/.663" lift) for about 12 years in a street/strip car and the engine was never pulled or freshened up. This is fairly similar to the something like an Extreme Energy 292 roller.

The thing with these types of rollers is you run a little bit stiffer spring than stock but it's not outrageous pressures or anything. I ran springs with about 180/480 pressure. As long as you generally keep the lift at less than .670", springs in a street/strip application will last a long time. That's a very general statement I know. I switched my springs out after 5 years as a precaution and they still tested good.

One major caution though is you HAVE to get good quality one piece pushrods. Not the ball end type. Those will eventually break.

I wouldn't use a roller such as this in an engine that will see 100,000 miles or even 50,000 miles. But if it's a street/strip application that sees for example 1000 miles a year, it will do fine and it will make big time hp and torque.

 

[BigBlockRanger]

Ok you guys *almost* have me convinced....

So that begs the question:

How much hp would I be leaving on the table by using the hyd. Lunati?

Engine combo:

545"
~10.5:1
Victor Jr.
EFI
TFS Street heads (out of the box)

And how much power you think it will make with an XR292R in it?

-James

 

[jpierce55]

Do a custom cam don't bother with anything else it is not worth the time or the $50 you will save. In fact you may be able to get a non-roller custom cam that will nearly equal the power of an out-of-box roller. A custom roller is going to be even stronger. The benefit is a no comprimise cam and without the custom you are leaving better manners and power on the table.

I was referring to a bronze gear and it seems 99% of people use them. How much does the composite cost, I am sure it is pricey.