[Jim W]

Wow, they really did a great job convincing people to throw away the stock heads, should be plenty of cores available for research... Funny, that they can make 700 hp in the right hands, yet are so inferior to the stock E-boks. I think my old, budget, small cam, pump gas 466 was making more than 460hp (at 5200) with me grinding away at the stock valve D3's only on the exhaust side, with no knowledge, and with complete abandon, meaning a halfway decent port and cam combination could easily surpass their 515hp e-bok headed 466...

Not only that but it seems like they could have done a hell of a lot better price wise just buying a set from Scott..

I did notice that the shop they used had SBC parts in the background and was eager to give degrading quotes regarding the stock heads... Anyone on here know that shop?


Jim

 

[DaveMcLain]

Mag articles

The fact that you must remember about magazine articles like the one you're talking about(have not seen it personally) is that the magazine is paid for by someone.... How much money has Ford ever paid to Car Craft(or any car mag) to promote the virtues of their 30 year old stock castings?

Plus with this engine there is a gigantic knowlege gap among most of the hot rod community when compared to big block Chevy or other engines. Had they placed an 80's "peanut port" big Chevy head on the flow bench along with the D3 their attitude might have been changed a great deal...

 

[cletus66]

I agree

I agree with both of you guys. Car Craft used to be affordable street performance oriented. Didn't they do the junkyard jewels articles? They also seem to be constantly changing editors and direction as a result. I also thought it was funny when they mentioned the 600 + hp iron headed motor in the same article where they say iron heads aren't worth messing with.
We will see if my home ported (with some help from Scotty J) D3VE heads can put my pump gas 466 Stang into the 10's this summer. I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[mgaugustine]

Pretty hard for them to cut a profit from advertisers by telling folks that the stock bits can be made to be "just as" or even "nearly as" competitive. Most magazines are in the business of selling advertising & fantasy, with a bit less emphasis on bothersome details like hard numbers and facts.

Besides that, we are especially gifted to have some really talented folks on this forum contributing information about "how to do stuff" that would take a couple of lifetimes to learn any other place. We tend to take for granted that good 385 series knowledge is generally available... it's not.

It's almost a black art for some publications.

 

[Mike_R_SCJ]

I read the article. I was just astounded at how low of flow numbers they got with the iron heads. Plus their machining costs seemed really high. Then I realized this was a comparison that is meant to steer you toward buying a set of Edelbrock heads.

If they want to do a comparison like this, why not at least show some Kaase heads, or Trick Flow heads. I guess Edelbrock must be paying the bills.

 

[Jim W]

I stand by my statements.

Just because they need to pay the bills doesn't make it any less pathetic that they are so wrong. In fact, just suggesting that they should lie or willingly publish misinformation, because someone is paying them to do so, makes it that much worse. (idiots versus prostitutes)

This is a hobby, there are 10 "have-nots" to every "have-lots", and by telling folks (many of whom have not found our haven) that stock heads are terrible and unusable, they are not only putting down the great minds who can make them work, but are potentially affecting their businesses and lives...

Oh well, off the old soap box...

Jim

 

[Mike_R_SCJ]

I agree. There's a real conflict of interest here. They are supposedly doing a balanced article that is supposed to help a person make the decision that serves them best. In this case, it appears to be an article that is meant to help Edelbrock sell some 385 heads.

I do believe that they probably lack knowledge when it comes to 385 series engines, but they sure aren't trying very hard to learn. With the internet it's doesn't take very long to find information. I don't think they were interested in learning. I think they were interested in selling a product.

If anybody out there hasn't read the articles, the astounding part is that they supposedly did quite a bit of porting work on the iron heads, and I believe the exhaust flow numbers were around 130 cfm (if I'm remembering correctly).

 

[BigBlockRanger]

I personally like the part about the heads not even being flowed on the same bench, etc. LOL

Truth be told, the author of any given magazine article is probably not an authority on the subject. They are relying heavily on what the, in this case, machine shop guys tell them. To top it off, they may not be an authority on the subject either!

As far as the heads go, to let anyone have at it with a carbide who does not specialize in that particular head is stupid. IMO. There's a lot of head 'porters' out there that can take a great head and turn it into a piece of crap in no time flat.

Why Edelbrock? Because they are the defacto default cylinder head and intake company.

 

[Falcon67]

I read most of it and all I could think was "Who are these people" and "I can't wait to see the postings from the 385 people". This sounds more like something that would come out of Mustang and Fords rather than Car Craft. Lame in the worst way.

 

[DaveMcLain]

The question you have to ask is how much more would it have cost for them to write a top notch article?

Take the heads to a shop and flow test them all on the same bench, how long is that going to take, a few hours? Measure the port volumes, velocity map them, flow them with an intake manifold attached, compare them to a head from a similar engine such as a 454 Chevy really check them out and THEN write up the story to make it a worthwhile article.

I really think it has nothing what so ever to do with a lack of knowlege about a particular engine because the article would have been lame if written about ANY engine, no real content.

 

[The Mad Porter]

Are you talking about the Feb issue or march???

I saw no iron flow figures in the feb issue of car craft about the 460 bbf.

The figures I saw were for the out of the box edelbrocks. Those numbers are nothing to shout about...



8)
.
.
.

 

[BigBlockRanger]

March.

Get with the program! :lol:



.

 

[TorinoStyle2]

Face it, when it comes to Ford tech in the "mainstream" magazines, we'll always get the short end of the stick!!
Esspecially 429/460 stuff....I like the way they always have to remind everyone what a dog they are in stock form because of being `70's smoggers.
The raw potential is still there, but they cant ever seem to get past that part!

 

[Danny Cabral]

I couldn't agree more with TorinoStyle2's statement! Well said.

 

[Mike_R_SCJ]

I looked at the article again last night. The exhaust port started out at 129 cfm. They show about 5 stages of porting and modifications and the best it got was about 135 cfm.

I just think that regardless of whether they have ever seen a 385 series head before in their life, they should be able to easily get 150 cfm if they put any effort into it whatsoever.

It seems to me that a fairly novice porter can take a set of 429/460 passenger car heads and get 160-170 cfm without a flow bench. Even if it's not a primo porting job you can get those numbers without being an expert. Of course to get up to 200 cfm and beyond takes alot more knowledge, and I wouldn't have expected them to reach that in this article. But to expect something more than 135 cfm doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It just seems like they weren't trying.

If I read this article knowing nothing about 429/460 heads, I would come away thinking that it's futile to even attempt to use iron heads.

 

[Jim W]

Beyond the different bench/different day scenario, I think they even said they flowed the E-bok head with a pipe and the factory stuff without. Not only that, I don't think they even mentioned the casting they were working on.. (could be wrong though)


Jim

 

[s1120]

Hi there newbee here!

I wanted to check in here just for this artacle. What a crock. They did not eaven TRY!!

OK, ya a new aftermarket head will flow good, but they made it out to seem like it would cost a nice lunch more to buy them. Now COMON!!!


I also did not see any info on what casting they used.

 

[F-460joe]

Hey, Guys. I'm the new kid on the block so please be patient with me. I've never used a forum before.
I have a '58 F-100 that I built as a street/strip machine several years ago. I ported my own 73 truck castings. I used a mild Comp hyd. cam, 3 angle valve job, low compression hyper-utectic pistons (8.7:1), stealth intake and a 750 holley. It has a C-6 with a 2500 stall and 389 gears. It ran 12.80 at 105 in the quarter mile in full street dress. I never even got out of second gear! Most of the Camaros and Vettes that I put on the trailer said I must be lying about what's in it. Nope. I think it is all in the head work. I'm not bragging, either. Just stating a fact that the iron castings must have some potential or I wouldn't be posting those numbers. We're talking about a full-size, all steel truck here, not a light-weight race car.
I have since torn it all back down to the frame, shortened the frame to accept a short bed, lowered it, installed a rack and pinion, notched the rear frame, added laddar bars, lightened the body by about 500 pounds, chopped the top 2 inches, channeled the floor 3 inches, and tilted the all steel front clip. I'm hoping for 11's before upping the compression, cam and intake.
I hope you all have as much fun with your projects as I am having with mine.

 

[RJP]

Cheeeby Craft

Magazine articles are geared to sell advertiser's parts. Thats what keeps them in business. If the article recommended some other heads how many Edelbrock heads do you think their advertiser would sell? And since most magazines are focused on the Chevy market it isn't in their best interest to show a BBF that makes more HP and torque than the BBC, readership and circulation would drop like a rock. Its even more gratifying when the Chevy guys get their ***' kicked by Ford powered cars or boats, they either think its a fluke, you are cheating or both. Classic case of denial.

 

[greengrinder]

And I just got a subscription!!

I havent read the article, and it does surprise me a bit.
I say we all just email Freiburger(sp?) and let him know that they were way off on that one. He seems to be a cool guy, maybe we could get him to compare a set of heads ported the "right" way. I think I could show my 7 year old how to get 135.
Kurt