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Discussion Starter #1
anyone following this?



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_go_co/us_defense_spending


ok i see the angle on this... looky here guys


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F35

The F-35 is descended from the X-35, the product of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program. Its development is being principally funded by the United States, with the United Kingdom, and other partner governments providing additional funding

vs


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics is the prime contractor and is responsible for the majority of the airframe, weapon systems and final assembly of the F-22. Program partner Boeing Integrated Defense Systems provides the wings, aft fuselage, avionics integration, and all of the pilot and maintenance training systems.



the one that is U.S. only has been chopped. i hate to think that this was for political gain with the world and other countries that now have new jobs to fill while our lockheed guys and their suppliers here go on unemployment.


95,000 jobs. gone!
 

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We can afford public health care, but not good paying defence jobs..... What a bunch of BS, Change my ***.............. Were heading right into the crapper.........

JOBS NOT WELFARE YOU CAPITAL HILL MORONS......................
 

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I have very loosely followed this plane. It is too old, pushed into production, has major design flaws. Jobs, yes, but at the root, whose money is going to whome? I'm all for domestic jobs. Just too much collusion among the old boys club. To add, some of the potential weapon systems that my be usable now are quite unbelievable but plausable. I don't believe all I read. My opinion, but I do read. Tres
 

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Discussion Starter #5
well its not set in stone that all jobs will be lost... given the track record of our GOVT though... be ready for it.


this makes me so angry. reading about the raptor. the cost, the flaws, the setbacks. the F35 wont be near the aircraft the F22 is but it will have some technology "borrowed" from the F22. seems like the F22 should be the ultimate fighter. if you have the best why step down and settle for less?


and then there are the jobs losses being predicted...

seems like a lose lose situation and we are gonna lose alot more than that.
 

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The best way to make sure we can't defend ourselves is start dismantling the military, starting with things our fearless leader thinks we don't need... OOOOOOH YYEAAAH, Change is definitely coming...! God help us all when it arrives...!









Doug...:cool:
 

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Let's face it, the F22 is the best fighter of all time. But so was the F-18, and so was the F-15, etc....

Guys, our enemies are no longer capable of producing anything that can compete with us in the air.

The MiG-29 was the last eastern block aircraft to even be in the same league (although it was still outclassed by later F-15's) and those aircraft that were produced are now bring operated as they were delivered 15 years ago. They are obsolete.

So why do we need to keep building better and better fighters? They are cool, no doubt, but they aren't free.

Greg
 

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Let's face it, the F22 is the best fighter of all time. But so was the F-18, and so was the F-15, etc....

Guys, our enemies are no longer capable of producing anything that can compete with us in the air.

The MiG-29 was the last eastern block aircraft to even be in the same league (although it was still outclassed by later F-15's) and those aircraft that were produced are now bring operated as they were delivered 15 years ago. They are obsolete.

So why do we need to keep building better and better fighters? They are cool, no doubt, but they aren't free.

Greg
advancement of science, engineering, materials, electronics, good paying tech / manufacturing jobs....... Need I go on?
 

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As a matter of fact, YES, please go on.

Fighter aircraft, just like any military tool or weapon system, are designed to counter a threat and rule the battlefield.

If the threat no longer exists, why spend billions of dollars to create even more one sided superiority?

It's a waste pure and simple.

Greg
 

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As a matter of fact, YES, please go on.

Fighter aircraft, just like any military tool or weapon system, are designed to counter a threat and rule the battlefield.

If the threat no longer exists, why spend billions of dollars to create even more one sided superiority?

It's a waste pure and simple.

Greg
Better building jets than paying welfare or giving free rides.. I'd rather see my tax
dollars going to programs like this one and giving people good jobs and private health care, it has much better end results.

It advances alot more than just our ability to kill things..... The thing that spin off from military programs are in you everyday life, gps, cell phones, hp lubricants, carbon fiber, polycarbonate, ect. May not exist without the requirements of weapons systems like these.

The threat still very much exists and IMO it's better to have a smaller very well equiped
standing military with vastly superior weapons than any potential threat could ever hope to have, conflicts aren't won by playing fair.
 

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I did not want to draw the welfare parallel, but I'm glad you see it for what it is.

I'm not talking about all military programs ending. Just the needless ones. The technology we enjoy today was no doubt influenced by military programs. The JSF is a continuation of those programs. Well, why does the JSF offer so much more in future technology than the F-22? If you can answer me that one question I wil concede.

How much smaller would the U.S. Military be with the JSF in the inventory? The cost of the plane is only a drop in the bucket, support and maintenance are big $$$ items.

I guess the F-22 isn't good enough for you, Dave, and that's OK.

But I find it interesting why you support the bailout of the JSF program and not the bailout of the auto industry.

Greg
 

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The one thing they don't mention is the F35 is putting pleanty of people to work. I have seen a number of new facilities out for Bid and now being built that are direct results of the F35. If you look at it from a simpletons point of view it makes since to go with the F35 JSF. Three plantforms that can benifit Airforce, Navy and Marines, instead of just one large exspensive plane for the Airforce.
I believe that we need to stay 5 steps ahead of everyone else because everyone else wants to be 10 steps ahead of us.

PS. I remember when the B2 bomber came out and they said that plane cost 2.1 billion each!! How in the world does one plane cost 2.1 billion!!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
what bothers me isnt so much losing the new F22's its the fact the the F35 is a shared aircraft and by "shared" everyone will have it and will be mostly assembled overseas. where as the F22 is 100% American every single design nut bolt and program running it.

if the F35 was 100% American and going to be 100% American it wouldnt be an issue as we have almost 200 F22's.
 

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Jones,

Right now we have the F/A-18 super hornet in the Navy inventory. It is superior in all ways to any adversary in the world right now.

Research and development of new airframes and weapons systems can and should continue, but if there is no threat on the horizon of anything that could one up the Super Hornet, why replace it with the JSF?

Upgrades to existing airframes make the most cost-effective sense. Look how long the F-14 was in frontline service. From the early '70's till just a few years ago. In service upgraddes made that long lifespan possible and beneficial.

The F-18 is no different. Future upgrades will keep that airframe flying for decades to come.

Come to think of it, the same applies to the F-22.

Whuy is it that nobody is crying about getting a new long range bomber? The B-52 is a prime example of what can be done to keep an airframe from becoming obsolete. They are planned to continue in service until around 2050 IIRC. The planes will be 100 years old by then, think about it!

The B2 will be long gone by then.

Greg
 

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Good point,

What about the Marines? They are getting the Harrier Jump Jet version out of the deal.

Isn't this plane suppose to replace the A10 also? Which is sad because I grew-up with the A10 as being the coolest plane in the world!!
 

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Jones, you really liked the Warthogs??:D I was always partial to the F-4's myself:D Poppa Bear used to fly the Phantoms. Of course growing up an Air Force brat, I always saw the F-15's and F-16's. The trainers were always flying too. Just useless bable here I guess, sorry for the hijack.


Keith
 

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Good point,

What about the Marines? They are getting the Harrier Jump Jet version out of the deal.

Isn't this plane suppose to replace the A10 also? Which is sad because I grew-up with the A10 as being the coolest plane in the world!!
Guess what, the Marines already operate the Harrier, and it is a design that dates back to the '50's. Still works great with many systems upgrades over time, of course.

The A-10 is in a class by itself, there's no way it can be replaced by a fast mover.

Greg
 

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B52s where mainly superceeded by submarine and land based ICBM's and smart munitions on fighters / lighter attack aircraft. In todays political enviroment large quantities of property damage is unpopular Aka carpet bombing / saturation bombing
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I like the A10. then again there is a list of aircraft I drooled over when I was glueing them together as a kid.


important life lessons come from model kits, "gloss camo isnt quite the same as flat camo", "open a window and use a fan when you use the glue and paint", and "if you put the 427 cammer in the truck the thunderbolt gets the y block"
 

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Jones, you really liked the Warthogs??:D I was always partial to the F-4's myself:D Poppa Bear used to fly the Phantoms. Of course growing up an Air Force brat, I always saw the F-15's and F-16's. The trainers were always flying too. Just useless bable here I guess, sorry for the hijack.


Keith
Oh yea, the Warthogs are still my favorite!
I lost an Uncle I never knew in a A6 Intruder in Vietnam and had an aunt that flew on the P3 Orion.

But the Warthog and SR-71 Blackbird are the two coolest IMO!
 
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