460 Ford Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

Building a bad 351W atm, and I'm looking for some guys with some serious small block knowledge.

Know of any forums for me to check out?

Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,204 Posts
I'm sure guys on here have built plenty if you have specific questions. Otherwise, corral.net has some good info, lots of BS to sort through, but you can figure it out what you need to know from known combos that have been posted, usually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
618 Posts
Glad to hear someone else is doing a 351w :cool: Mine is going to be pretty mild, at least until I can afford a decent set of heads. I'd love to do a homebrew turbo setup though. I'd be interested to hear what route you're taking with your build..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Glad to hear someone else is doing a 351w :cool: Mine is going to be pretty mild, at least until I can afford a decent set of heads. I'd love to do a homebrew turbo setup though. I'd be interested to hear what route you're taking with your build..
Thanks for the help. I am going to give you guys a shot at my questions first, and like Chilly said, I'm thinking you guys will be able to answer them... I'm sure a couple here have built a decent small block before.

As for my combo... I am not sure where I am going yet... N/A motor, alum. heads, not sure if I plan to run this one on race gas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,854 Posts
Thanks for the help. I am going to give you guys a shot at my questions first, and like Chilly said, I'm thinking you guys will be able to answer them... I'm sure a couple here have built a decent small block before.

As for my combo... I am not sure where I am going yet... N/A motor, alum. heads, not sure if I plan to run this one on race gas.
I am sure that a LOT of people in the engine buildeing business on here other than myself have also done a WHOLE LOT of 'em.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,854 Posts
If it's really a street/strip combo with 351 cubic inches, (you didn't say how big it is going to be), then the best bang for the buck will be the RHS cast iron 180's; the 200"s if you intend to regularly rev it higher than 6,500 RPM.
Use the Edelbrock Air-Gap intake manifold.
A CUSTOM solid lifter camshaft; presuming you are NOT using a later OEM hydraulic roller block.

These will get you well on your way past 400 horsepower with under 10.2/1 compression ratio.

I built 50 crate engines for Panos Racing which had much less than this, (X305 FRPP cylinder heads with a Z303 hydraulic roller camshaft), and they HAD to dyno between 405 and 410 horsepower at 6,000 RPM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I really appreciate the help.

Just wondering why you recommend the iron cylinder head. Just plain cost effectiveness? Spending less money is fine by me, ha-ha; but the aluminum pieces are not that much more money.

The RHS heads have two combustion chamber sizes available, 58 and 64 CC. Is there a reason a guy would choose one over the other, besides the change in compression ratio?

The block is going .030 over, 357 C.I.

Thank you,

Derek.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,854 Posts
I really appreciate the help.

Just wondering why you recommend the iron cylinder head. Just plain cost effectiveness? Spending less money is fine by me, ha-ha; but the aluminum pieces are not that much more money.

The RHS heads have two combustion chamber sizes available, 58 and 64 CC. Is there a reason a guy would choose one over the other, besides the change in compression ratio?

The block is going .030 over, 357 C.I.

Thank you,

Derek.
You said money was an issue and the cast iron heads are cheaper ... personally, I would use the aluminum versions.

The combustion chamber differences are only to get closer to the compression ratio you wish with the short block you have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thanks a lot.

About head gaskets... Wondering what you recommend. RHS wants Fel-Pro #1152. Been reading around, these gaskets sound good to me.

Not sure if I should step it up with 10:1 + compression ratio.

No nitrous.

Having a hard time finding a forged piston that will yield me the compression ratio we are after on 91 octane. 58 cc chamber, probably going with the aluminum heads.

72' block.

You've been a huge help, I appreciate it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,854 Posts
I use the FRPP head gaskets made by Fel-Pro. M-6051-S331 for iron heads, or with high compression or nitrous with aluminum heads and M-6051-CP331 for aluminum heads under 11/1 compression ratio.
M-9430-A50 intake manifold gaskets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I use the FRPP head gaskets made by Fel-Pro. M-6051-S331 for iron heads, or with high compression or nitrous with aluminum heads and M-6051-CP331 for aluminum heads under 11/1 compression ratio.
M-9430-A50 intake manifold gaskets.
Good to hear, dang... You are good!

Now to find some pistons!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,319 Posts
With 10:1 compression I would use the Fel Pro stock replacement gasket that comes in a rebuilder gasket set. I don't see the need for anything fancy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
351 w

I agree with the use of Fel Pro Head Gaskets that come in the kit if you are going to keep the engine mild and around 10 to 1 or 10.5 to 1. Remember that Ford had 11.7 to 1 compression in the Boss 351 Cleveland and the factory heads gaskets back in 71 were not as good as reg Fel Pros today.

If you want to build a really awesome 351 W on a Budget, I have a few ideas. I have done more than a couple of these.

There are cast cranks that are good for over 500 horsepower for the 351 W that have a 3.85 stroke. This is the same stroke as the 460.

This set up in my opinion was to blow the Chevy 383 out of the water.

Using this 3.85 stroke crank is better in more ways than one. It is designed to use the stock 351 W rod and a special 302 type piston. This combination makes 393 cubic inches with a 4.030 bore size and makes mountains of tire melting torque.

Works great in trucks for towing with the correct cam and even better in big Boats.

I like to bore the blocks to 4.040. It is about 395.something I can't recall but I just call it a 396 to make the Chevy guys cringe because I have a small block Ford making big block cubes.

I sell all these parts and it is very easy on your budget.

As for heads, well, not everyone will agree but I have been using them for guys who are on a serious budget.
I have sold several sets of small block Fords with no complaints and I have sold about 7 sets of Big Block Chevy heads with no complaints.

I know I am going to get some heat on this but I am not having problems.
I will say this before the crap starts getting thrown my way though.
I use the Head Castings Bare only. My sales Rep told me the heads were pretty good but the Valves and Springs and other parts were not so good.

I am talking about Pro Comp Aluminum Heads. Yep! You can start yelling and cussing now.
They work pretty good and are very cost effective for the guy on a budget.
I have even ran a couple of big Block Chevy dyno test with Pro Comp heads on a 468 against a 496 with Brodix BB2 +s.. Both had 10. 1 to 10.2 to 1 compression. Both had the same cam, a .621 Hyd Roller, same rockers, same gaskets, same timing set, same pushrods, same oil pump, everything. I furnished the parts for both engines. They both used the same BG 850 carb for the test. The 496 had Brodix BB2 +s and a late model Merlin Intake with raised plenum and the 468 just used a 20 year old Victor Jr. The 496 made 597 HP with 32 degrees of timing and the 468 made 604 with 31.5 degrees of timing and was run about 30 mins or so after the 496 and used the dirty plugs from the 496 that had about 10 test runs on them. The 496 later made 638 HP with 34 degrees of timing and a 1050. We didn't run the 468 again but had to figure it would have made about 650 with the Dominator and 2 1/2 degrees more timing.

Anyway. I use the Pro Comp Head Castings and buy my valves and springs etc from companies here in the states and assemble them to the customers cam spec card.
The most often used heads are the 195 cc head and the 210 cc head. Both come with 2.02 and 1.6 valves.

I sell either set complete with Stainless Valves and other parts that match the cam specs up to .600 lift for $950.00 a set. There are companies who advertise these heads a little cheaper but they are using Pro Comps Valve train. I don't think I could use the heads that way. Why would my sales Rep Advise me against it if they were really good?

Build a 393 or a 396 with Pro Comp Heads and Professional Products Air Gap Intake and you can make as much power on a budget as others are doing for twice the money.
I am not saying you can go out and Challange Billy Glidden to a show down but you can melt the tires off your car all day long. It is the deal for a Windsor. Mike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,854 Posts
There are a LOT of engine builders and vendors on this forum who will sell anyone those same parts for the same money ... let's not make this thread about advetising here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I have heard bad things about those cheap china cranks, they scare me... Then again, I've never used one.


What about the longevity of something like that?

Special 302 piston? Elaborate a little bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,730 Posts
I agree with the use of Fel Pro Head Gaskets that come in the kit if you are going to keep the engine mild and around 10 to 1 or 10.5 to 1. Remember that Ford had 11.7 to 1 compression in the Boss 351 Cleveland and the factory heads gaskets back in 71 were not as good as reg Fel Pros today.

If you want to build a really awesome 351 W on a Budget, I have a few ideas. I have done more than a couple of these.

There are cast cranks that are good for over 500 horsepower for the 351 W that have a 3.85 stroke. This is the same stroke as the 460.

This set up in my opinion was to blow the Chevy 383 out of the water.

Using this 3.85 stroke crank is better in more ways than one. It is designed to use the stock 351 W rod and a special 302 type piston. This combination makes 393 cubic inches with a 4.030 bore size and makes mountains of tire melting torque.

Works great in trucks for towing with the correct cam and even better in big Boats.

I like to bore the blocks to 4.040. It is about 395.something I can't recall but I just call it a 396 to make the Chevy guys cringe because I have a small block Ford making big block cubes.

I sell all these parts and it is very easy on your budget.

As for heads, well, not everyone will agree but I have been using them for guys who are on a serious budget.
I have sold several sets of small block Fords with no complaints and I have sold about 7 sets of Big Block Chevy heads with no complaints.

I know I am going to get some heat on this but I am not having problems.
I will say this before the crap starts getting thrown my way though.
I use the Head Castings Bare only. My sales Rep told me the heads were pretty good but the Valves and Springs and other parts were not so good.

I am talking about Pro Comp Aluminum Heads. Yep! You can start yelling and cussing now.
They work pretty good and are very cost effective for the guy on a budget.
I have even ran a couple of big Block Chevy dyno test with Pro Comp heads on a 468 against a 496 with Brodix BB2 +s.. Both had 10. 1 to 10.2 to 1 compression. Both had the same cam, a .621 Hyd Roller, same rockers, same gaskets, same timing set, same pushrods, same oil pump, everything. I furnished the parts for both engines. They both used the same BG 850 carb for the test. The 496 had Brodix BB2 +s and a late model Merlin Intake with raised plenum and the 468 just used a 20 year old Victor Jr. The 496 made 597 HP with 32 degrees of timing and the 468 made 604 with 31.5 degrees of timing and was run about 30 mins or so after the 496 and used the dirty plugs from the 496 that had about 10 test runs on them. The 496 later made 638 HP with 34 degrees of timing and a 1050. We didn't run the 468 again but had to figure it would have made about 650 with the Dominator and 2 1/2 degrees more timing.

Anyway. I use the Pro Comp Head Castings and buy my valves and springs etc from companies here in the states and assemble them to the customers cam spec card.
The most often used heads are the 195 cc head and the 210 cc head. Both come with 2.02 and 1.6 valves.

I sell either set complete with Stainless Valves and other parts that match the cam specs up to .600 lift for $950.00 a set. There are companies who advertise these heads a little cheaper but they are using Pro Comps Valve train. I don't think I could use the heads that way. Why would my sales Rep Advise me against it if they were really good?

Build a 393 or a 396 with Pro Comp Heads and Professional Products Air Gap Intake and you can make as much power on a budget as others are doing for twice the money.
I am not saying you can go out and Challange Billy Glidden to a show down but you can melt the tires off your car all day long. It is the deal for a Windsor. Mike.
the BOSS351 did'nt use the regular head gasket , had a double fire ring . BTW , no yelling/cussing from me on any of the PC small block heads
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top