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It is a 4 page article on how to a use a 429/60 style block and real Boss 429 heads in building a fake Boss 429
March 2006 in Hot Magazine on building a Fake Boss 429
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2,426 Posts
Yeah, like there's a bunch of Boss 429 heads out there available to the masses!!
Leave it to the magazines to make Fords look bad in the eyes of the general hotrodding public.
Im sure its an interesting story with cool pics, and its probably a bad-*** motor too! But its something that 99.9% of Ford fans will never ever get their hands on.
Leave it to the magazines to make Fords look bad in the eyes of the general hotrodding public.
Im sure its an interesting story with cool pics, and its probably a bad-*** motor too! But its something that 99.9% of Ford fans will never ever get their hands on.
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5,483 Posts
Rare? Never get our hands on one? All the more reason to write a story about something like this! I for one was glad to see the article. Also found it interesting how little power the thing made. Makes it pretty clear that we're pretty lucky to have our "low tech" wedge heads.TorinoStyle2 said:
G
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·Power
I thought it was low at first, too, but then again it's only 429 inches, it's only 9:1, it's using that not-so-great dual plane intake, and they stopped the dyno at 6,200 but the power was still climbing. In other words, I don't think the low power is due to the heads.
I thought it was low at first, too, but then again it's only 429 inches, it's only 9:1, it's using that not-so-great dual plane intake, and they stopped the dyno at 6,200 but the power was still climbing. In other words, I don't think the low power is due to the heads.
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296 Posts
At least they saved a Boss
I read the article and a guy came across a pair of Boss heads and matching manifold that "were so severly damaged that if they had come off of any other motor they would have been thrown away". They spent nearly two weeks welding and machining to salvage the heads. The owner was building a Boss clone 69 fastback, so he was willing to invest the money to salvage the heads (of course they had to make a comment about the poor casting quality).
Regardless you have to appreciate the commitment of one person (not Hot Rod) to get a Boss back on the street.
James
I read the article and a guy came across a pair of Boss heads and matching manifold that "were so severly damaged that if they had come off of any other motor they would have been thrown away". They spent nearly two weeks welding and machining to salvage the heads. The owner was building a Boss clone 69 fastback, so he was willing to invest the money to salvage the heads (of course they had to make a comment about the poor casting quality).
Regardless you have to appreciate the commitment of one person (not Hot Rod) to get a Boss back on the street.
James
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101 Posts
Re: boss 429
WHAT A FRECKING INSULT TO BUILD THIS TO 492HP TYPICAL ONE WAY LOGIC!!rpenny said:
Well, the article did say the owner purposely was soft-peddling the engine on these initial dyno runs.....he did not want to risk any damage. And with those rare heads with all the work that was put into them I do not blame him.
I think most of the viewing public knows he could make 600-700 horsepower easily if he wanted to max it out, but in this case he even had stock 429 rods in it.
I think most of the viewing public knows he could make 600-700 horsepower easily if he wanted to max it out, but in this case he even had stock 429 rods in it.
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6 Posts
Boss 429
I'm the original poster. I know you can get more power from a Boss 429 because I have four of them and have owned eight total. One is a 557 Boss 429 that runs on 89 octane pump gas because it is going to be street driven and which means sitting in traffic and it dyno'ed out at 723 hp and 615 ft lbs torque and we ran it up to 8,000 rpms. I also have a all aluminum 494 Boss 429 prototype not the Cam AM motor. This is one of two made. It sister cranked out 740 hp on pump gas and the one I have has never been fired. And I have two others that I have not decided what I want to do yet. Also in the Hot Rod Magazine article the heads are not "Nascar" heads but "Street" heads. The reason is the "Nascar" heads are fully domed "Hemi" with a 2.40 intake and 1.70 exhaust. Also the "Nascar" blocks are 'O' ringed and the heads are not and run a shorter rocker arm shaft and stand, the "Street" rocker arm shaft and stand. The "Street" heads are "Semi Hemi" with a 2.28 intake and a 1.70 exhaust. The "Street" heads are 'O' ringed and the blocks are not. So, the guy who wrote the article did not even know what heads he was looking at. The reason I posted this was I thought it was interesting because, most people cannot afford the real engines and it is a little more cost effective, plus the "WOW" factor.
I'm the original poster. I know you can get more power from a Boss 429 because I have four of them and have owned eight total. One is a 557 Boss 429 that runs on 89 octane pump gas because it is going to be street driven and which means sitting in traffic and it dyno'ed out at 723 hp and 615 ft lbs torque and we ran it up to 8,000 rpms. I also have a all aluminum 494 Boss 429 prototype not the Cam AM motor. This is one of two made. It sister cranked out 740 hp on pump gas and the one I have has never been fired. And I have two others that I have not decided what I want to do yet. Also in the Hot Rod Magazine article the heads are not "Nascar" heads but "Street" heads. The reason is the "Nascar" heads are fully domed "Hemi" with a 2.40 intake and 1.70 exhaust. Also the "Nascar" blocks are 'O' ringed and the heads are not and run a shorter rocker arm shaft and stand, the "Street" rocker arm shaft and stand. The "Street" heads are "Semi Hemi" with a 2.28 intake and a 1.70 exhaust. The "Street" heads are 'O' ringed and the blocks are not. So, the guy who wrote the article did not even know what heads he was looking at. The reason I posted this was I thought it was interesting because, most people cannot afford the real engines and it is a little more cost effective, plus the "WOW" factor.
Article starts off bad and went down hill from there
The opening paragraph was a crock of crap, in part is said: "...Desicision makers at Ford were tired of getting whupped in competition by Chevrolet's canted valve big block and Dodge's vaunted Hemi...." Since when did Chevy EVER whump its competition in NASCAR? Chevy big blocks had problems just finishing a race let alone winning one. And the article goes on to imply Dodge invented the Hemi, WTF? the hemisperical combustion chamber goes back to the turn of the last century and it wasn't the Dodge Bros. who invented it. Z.A. Duntov was using the hemi chamber in his Ardun head conversions for the Flathead Ford engines in 1938, not exactly a Chrysler innovation. Since they were referring to the FE engine in the article I posted a few commments on the FE forum. These so-called selfproclaimed experts should do research and write fact, not some fantasy history revision to suit their bias towards Chevy, G.M. or Chrysler. Give credit where credit is due.
The opening paragraph was a crock of crap, in part is said: "...Desicision makers at Ford were tired of getting whupped in competition by Chevrolet's canted valve big block and Dodge's vaunted Hemi...." Since when did Chevy EVER whump its competition in NASCAR? Chevy big blocks had problems just finishing a race let alone winning one. And the article goes on to imply Dodge invented the Hemi, WTF? the hemisperical combustion chamber goes back to the turn of the last century and it wasn't the Dodge Bros. who invented it. Z.A. Duntov was using the hemi chamber in his Ardun head conversions for the Flathead Ford engines in 1938, not exactly a Chrysler innovation. Since they were referring to the FE engine in the article I posted a few commments on the FE forum. These so-called selfproclaimed experts should do research and write fact, not some fantasy history revision to suit their bias towards Chevy, G.M. or Chrysler. Give credit where credit is due.
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64 Posts
Boss heads on non Boss block
I've ran Boss heads on non Boss blocks,I have a A-96 block with a set of mildly reworked D-port nascar heads,Ron's dual toilets on a Wieand tunnelram,It's in a 2550 lb Mustang,4.25 stroke,4.625 bore,It runs 8.15- 8.30 depending on the weather,It makes appox 1000 hp as is. I'm going to put a Hogan's intake with a pair of terminators and nitrous and plan on running in the 7s.It can be seen under racing news at [www.weberhazlet.com].Also I have a Boss headed engine on a scj block,It can be seen under parts for sale on the same website. Pat
I've ran Boss heads on non Boss blocks,I have a A-96 block with a set of mildly reworked D-port nascar heads,Ron's dual toilets on a Wieand tunnelram,It's in a 2550 lb Mustang,4.25 stroke,4.625 bore,It runs 8.15- 8.30 depending on the weather,It makes appox 1000 hp as is. I'm going to put a Hogan's intake with a pair of terminators and nitrous and plan on running in the 7s.It can be seen under racing news at [www.weberhazlet.com].Also I have a Boss headed engine on a scj block,It can be seen under parts for sale on the same website. Pat
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19 Posts
STOCK RODS
Did you see that it was running stock rods! I wouldnt want to push on it much either. He had to modify the little ends anyway, probable spent a couple hundred refurbishing them, when he couldve bought a set of eagles for not much more. That just proves that its a true "street" engine.
Did you see that it was running stock rods! I wouldnt want to push on it much either. He had to modify the little ends anyway, probable spent a couple hundred refurbishing them, when he couldve bought a set of eagles for not much more. That just proves that its a true "street" engine.
Well my Hot Rod finally arrived.....
Ford did make Nascar Boss 429 heads with quenched chambers for short tracks. Same larger intakes as the open Nascar heads. Guess the idea was to gain low end torque.
As far as the part where the writer says Ford put the quenches on the side of the chamber "Ford engineers didn't want to be accused of completely ripping off Dodge's Hemi engine." That has to be pure speculation, as the Boss 9 chamber is much shallower semi-hemi and the valvetrain completely different. The Boss 9 combustion chamber is an improvement with the shallow chamber allowing a lighter piston and better flame travel over the big piston dome a Dodge hemi has to run to get a good compression ratio. Those side quenches are there because Ford engineering found out the heads work better that way.
The guy must have a fortune in welding those heads together, but he got a buy with the rockers and valves thrown in. Some of those original Nascar valves where really trick pieces, even today.
Its a neat job they did considering, but coulda used at least a 10 or 10.5 compression, better rods, its odd that they just did'nt redrill the welded oil passages in the heads, and I sure hope that they didn't leave that braided line hanging loose under the pushrods like that. The old head porting might have hurt too since usually the Nascar crews were looking for top end rpm.
Ford did make Nascar Boss 429 heads with quenched chambers for short tracks. Same larger intakes as the open Nascar heads. Guess the idea was to gain low end torque.
As far as the part where the writer says Ford put the quenches on the side of the chamber "Ford engineers didn't want to be accused of completely ripping off Dodge's Hemi engine." That has to be pure speculation, as the Boss 9 chamber is much shallower semi-hemi and the valvetrain completely different. The Boss 9 combustion chamber is an improvement with the shallow chamber allowing a lighter piston and better flame travel over the big piston dome a Dodge hemi has to run to get a good compression ratio. Those side quenches are there because Ford engineering found out the heads work better that way.
The guy must have a fortune in welding those heads together, but he got a buy with the rockers and valves thrown in. Some of those original Nascar valves where really trick pieces, even today.
Its a neat job they did considering, but coulda used at least a 10 or 10.5 compression, better rods, its odd that they just did'nt redrill the welded oil passages in the heads, and I sure hope that they didn't leave that braided line hanging loose under the pushrods like that. The old head porting might have hurt too since usually the Nascar crews were looking for top end rpm.
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36 Posts
Nothing they could've said about the Boss/429 build could be half as bad as that "GTO" they're thrashing. What a POS......that thing keeps me laughing. Now they've got a whole new LS6 motor and it still only runs 12.45. Hell, if you did half that work to a simple 4.6 Mustang you'd be running 10s. I think they ought to stick a BDS 8-71 on there and see if they can crack the 11s! :lol:
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6 Posts
It's Sad the Boss 429 get no respect compare to Mopar's Hemi
Even though the Boss 429 beat the Mopar Hemi in Nascar and at drag strip, people think the Mopar Hemi is like the "Holy Grail" of all engines especially in drag racing. It is almost kind of funny since NHRA banned the modern version of the Boss 429 from Top Fuel and Top Fuel Funny Car and Top Alcohol Dragster and Top Alcohol Funny Car. Because, NHRA said that it would be a unfair competative advantage. How I found this out was from Walt Austin who I sold some Boss 429 parts to and who is Pat Austin Father and was the owner of Pat Austin's Top Fuel Dragster and Top Alcohol Funny Car. Now he is Mopar guy but they where going to build a New Funny Car that was Ford Mustang Bodied and Run a Ford Boss Motor in it. NHRA told him that and just to make sure to keep the Boss motor out NHRA competition they actually changed the bore spacing from 4.90 which is a standard big block Ford and Boss 429 bore spacing to 4.84 which is a standard Mopar "Hemi" bore. The Boss motor dose dominate in the IHRA "Mountain Motor" Pro-Stock class. Mater of fact the Chevy guy complained about the Boss Motor so much that IHRA made it legal to run Boss 429 style heads on Chevy engines and Chevy guys can buy the Boss top end kit from John Kaase and Sonny Lennard. Also in Goodguys Nastalia Drag Racing Series in AA Fuel coupe the fastest car in the field in time and speed and also is reining champion in that class is 37 Ford three window coupe sponsored by Total Cost involved and runs mondern Blown Boss 429. So, it's sad everybody is thinks the Mopar "Hemi" is so great but, are scared to run against them in competition.
Even though the Boss 429 beat the Mopar Hemi in Nascar and at drag strip, people think the Mopar Hemi is like the "Holy Grail" of all engines especially in drag racing. It is almost kind of funny since NHRA banned the modern version of the Boss 429 from Top Fuel and Top Fuel Funny Car and Top Alcohol Dragster and Top Alcohol Funny Car. Because, NHRA said that it would be a unfair competative advantage. How I found this out was from Walt Austin who I sold some Boss 429 parts to and who is Pat Austin Father and was the owner of Pat Austin's Top Fuel Dragster and Top Alcohol Funny Car. Now he is Mopar guy but they where going to build a New Funny Car that was Ford Mustang Bodied and Run a Ford Boss Motor in it. NHRA told him that and just to make sure to keep the Boss motor out NHRA competition they actually changed the bore spacing from 4.90 which is a standard big block Ford and Boss 429 bore spacing to 4.84 which is a standard Mopar "Hemi" bore. The Boss motor dose dominate in the IHRA "Mountain Motor" Pro-Stock class. Mater of fact the Chevy guy complained about the Boss Motor so much that IHRA made it legal to run Boss 429 style heads on Chevy engines and Chevy guys can buy the Boss top end kit from John Kaase and Sonny Lennard. Also in Goodguys Nastalia Drag Racing Series in AA Fuel coupe the fastest car in the field in time and speed and also is reining champion in that class is 37 Ford three window coupe sponsored by Total Cost involved and runs mondern Blown Boss 429. So, it's sad everybody is thinks the Mopar "Hemi" is so great but, are scared to run against them in competition.
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