[XCSEDAN]

how's it going guys?
looking at building a mild 460 with maybe looking at large gains in performance later down the track.
basically the idea is to build something that will go fairly well but not over the top, simply because i want to get used to a BB before i go mental and put my car into a pole.
this will be a street car so here is what i am thinking:
.030" over
460 crank ground 10/10
H-beams
trying to work out how high to run the comp so pistons may or may not be custom (looking at around 11.5:1 static)
Kaase p-51s (depending on exhaust port angle, don't want to chop my shock towers...)
Crower 286R (have seen EXCELLENT results from this cam in clevelands, and seeing as they make one for a 460, i'd say this will be my starting point), then an update to a bigger cam maybe Comp XR292 or something similar.
the one thing i am not sure of is the intake manifold and carb, i'm not sure wether to go a 950cfm or not.
with the intake manifold, which intake manifold should i run, i will only be pulling 6000rpm with the first cam, it'll turn to 6500, but peak power will probably be around the 5800 mark.
i'm only trying to work out the small cam setup at the moment, not worried about the larger cam untill 2-3 years, i don't get my license back for 18months anyway...

also, trying to work out what gearbox to run behind this thing, i want to keep it a manual, what do most people around here run?

any advice people can give me? ignition systems etc?

here's a pic of the car it will be going in:

 

[carpenter motorhead]

950 cfm is to much carb for a cam that size even with p51s assuming you want to drive it on the street .Might want to consider 11to1 as ceiling for pump gas even with alluminum heads unless pump gas down under exceeds 93 octane.

 

[XCSEDAN]

our fuel in australia is 98ron, not sure what mon rating it is though, do you have any insight on an intake manifold? i think i might get a carb built by pro systems, will save me a lot of stuffing around i think.

 

[56 hemi]

run a edelbrock victor or one of kasse's single plane manifolds! And yeah our pump fuel is much higher octain then in the states! They start using race fuel when comp gets above 11:1 even with alloy heads where we can still use pump 98 with as much as 13:1 comp with alloy heads!

 

[XCSEDAN]

i think american fuel goes off MON rating not RON 56 hemi....
yeah i've seen plenty of high comp motors down here, had a look at those intakes too...
anyone reckon it's worth going for the Boss9 heads? i haven't seen the flow rates anywhere or port sizes yet but the website does claim you can get an extra 100hp out of these heads over the P51s....
also had a look at the Kaase line of manifold's i'd say they will be the way to go, they're designed to work and fit Kaase heads so, makes sense...

 

[56 hemi]

you'll never fix boss9 heads in an XC! you would have to remove the shock towers completly and pipes would still be a nightmare!

 

[jackel200269]

Dont run the edelbrock he mentioned above, its way big for your app. I would try a wieand stealth or the edelbrock rpm, both are dual planes and will work perfectly with your smaller cube's and a 6000 to 6500 rpm red line. The victor wouldn't be worth the 15 to 20 hp difference in the top end, and you would be lucky if you even gained that by running the victor. The amount of torque and fuel economy that you would loose would be a significant loss.

 

[XCSEDAN]

ok so boss9 is out of the picture, with the victor manifold, how would that work with an XR292R-10? would it still not be worth having? by looking at the cam i am guessing peak power would be around the 6300-6600rpm mark?
what is another cam around the same size that has a good torque and hp range, mainly looking for large numbers from 3500-7000, the limiter will be set to 7500 for burnouts etc that's why i thought the 292 would be a good cam...

 

[jackel200269]

The boss 9's would be awesome. Better win the lottery though, they cost a fortune when you add up all the extras you need to run them. I wouldn't venture to far to say 13 to 14 grand.

 

[jackel200269]

Dont run the edelbrock he mentioned above, its way big for your app. I would try a wieand stealth or the edelbrock rpm, both are dual planes and will work perfectly with your smaller cube's and a 6000 to 6500 rpm red line. The victor wouldn't be worth the 15 to 20 hp difference in the top end, and you would be lucky if you even gained that by running the victor. The amount of torque and fuel economy that you would loose would be a significant loss.

Wow I feel like an ***, I got crossed up between two different threads when I replied to this. The victor probably would be a good choice for this.

 

[XCSEDAN]

yeah the idea isn't to spend MASSIVE $ on the engine, something that is well and truely above the average, but at the same time still pretty mild and streetable, seeing as how big the boss9s are (just had a look at the measurements) there is no way in hell they will fit in my engine bay... i'd say i'm out of lucky as far as that goes.
has anyone played around with the lobe centre on the 292? i thought about opening it up to a 112 instead of 110 to get a bit more torque out of it....

 

[crittersf1]

Are all the cars down under 4-door?

 

[XCSEDAN]

nah mate, my car came in a 2door version as well, ever seen mad max? theyre the 2 door versions. here's a pic:

thats an XA, mine is an XC, but they look pretty much the same, just put my bonnet gaurds and grill on it, though the sports models came with twin headlight grills (2 headlights per side instead of one like mine), yes i would love a coupe, no i cannot afford one they are more then triple the price of sedans haha

 

[bob460]

I think the xr292 cam was used in a 557ci built by scotty johnson "The mad porter" on this site. That thing made 697hp at 5800rpm and a lazy 700 pounds of torque. He used the kaase p-51 heads and only 10.1 comp perfect for pump fuel,this thing would do killer burnouts aswell.

 

[tiger]

950 cfm is to much carb for a cam that size even with p51s assuming you want to drive it on the street .Might want to consider 11to1 as ceiling for pump gas even with alluminum heads unless pump gas down under exceeds 93 octane.

I would almost gurantee if you get a carb from prosystems for that engine will be at least a 950 or 1000 hp holly carb. We have 3 prosystems carbs for very small 460 and 429 engines with factory cast iron heads and the smallest carb we have is a 950 hp main body holly.

 

[XCSEDAN]

i'll look into that build.

 

[rmcomprandy]

You said this is to be a STREET car so, I'll give street recomendations.
1, Get the compression ratio down to 10.8/1 or less. (a big cam or higher RPM allows more ratio but, this is a STREET car).
2. Use a Weiand stealth #8021 for the CJ application. (Presuming the carb height isn't a problem).
3. Get an "out of the box" #4781 Holley 850 double pumper carb.
4. Use a GOOD oil pan which will fit your application.

The P-51 heads have the exhaust ports in the stock production CJ location.
NOW, if you haven't told us the truth and you intend to race this - it all changes.

 

[rmcomprandy]

Oh yea - the U.S.A. rates the gasoline at the pump by taking the RON number and the MON number then adding them together and dividing by 2. (R+M divided by 2 = the pump rated octane number).

 

[bob460]

If our octane rating is rated at 98 ron what is the most comp it will run before detonation, just curious. Thanks. with alloy heads.

 

[rmcomprandy]

If our octane rating is rated at 98 ron what is the most comp it will run before detonation, just curious. Thanks. with alloy heads.

Uncontrolled CYLINDER PRESSURE and the SPEED of the decending piston is what causes detonation NOT compression ratio so, the most ratio you can run will be determined by a lot of parameters and compression ratio is only one of them.
1. compression ratio
2. temperature
3. camshaft/valve timing
4. engine speed
5. stroke
6. rod/stroke ratio
7. quench
8. piston topography
9. combustion chamber shape
10. turbulence within the combustion chamber
11. air/fuel ratio
12. air/fuel charge distribution

I probably missed something ...