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It seems Darin Morgan HASN'T got any head at the moment, (what are you reading anyway), and it will probably take over a year to design one; then more time to test it and get a part number.

The IHRA hemi style head is WAY to big for a 500 inch engine.

Take that "crack" pipe and throw it as far as you can... Bull S__T rumors like this is how "urban legends" get started.
 

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A friend of mine has a buddy who said he was told inside information by a person who heard about ... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :!:
 

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rmcomprandy said:
A friend of mine has a buddy who said he was told inside information by a person who heard about ... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :!:
My friend's buddy says your buddy is full of $%& and doesn't have a clue what is going to happen :shock: :oops: :cry:
 

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Here's what Mr. Morgan himself had to say.

"Since the word is out, I thought I should comment so the rumors don't get totally out of hand and cuase problems. First off, FORD IS NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY ON THIS DEAL!. Its all privately funded from other entities who will remain anonymous at least until they deem it necessary to make them self's known. The funds are there, the thing is a GO and progress is being made. Anything this complex takes a team of individuals and companies to pull off not to mention a lot of time to complete. Its not going to happen over night and its not going to happen in a year. It might take a year and half before everything is completed.


P.S. Please, everyone just hold up on the rumors and let this thing happen. The announcements will be forth coming and the details will trickle out as the powers that be deem necessary, but not until. No, I cant comment any further on this other than what I have already stated so please don't post asking for more info because I cant give it."
 

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rmcomprandy said:
The IHRA hemi style head is WAY to big for a 500 inch engine.
Randy, you are absolutely correct. That is why Carroll Carter has spent a bunch of time & money reworking the 4.9" BS Roberts design hemi head for NHRA Pro Stock. The last time I talked to him, he had $42,000 tied up in R&D on one pair of bare heads (no valves or rockers). But I guess it is the same old politics at Ford as everywhere. If you don't have the right person pushing your product to the higher ups then you get nowhere. It's a crying shame that there is a head available if Ford would just write a letter to NHRA sayinging it's legal. :(
 

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B-441

There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,
 

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Re: B-441

well if they are barely making 1170 horse with em, whats the incentive to use em?
Gary Blair said:
There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,
 

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Re: B-441

4speed390 said:
well if they are barely making 1170 horse with em, whats the incentive to use em?
Gary Blair said:
There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,
1996 technology :idea: IMHO
 

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Re: B-441

4speed390 said:
well if they are barely making 1170 horse with em, whats the incentive to use em?
Gary Blair said:
There has always been a B-441 4.900 NHRA Roberts Hemi head since day 1. Glidden had them in 1995. Ford wanted him to pursue the E-460 then and that is why he did not develop them.

Louie had a 500" B-441 in 1996 that did well at 1178 HP but needed more development. That engine later was sleeved down to 455" for a pulling engine. If I recall it made roughly 1150 HP.

What Carroll Carter had Tom Roberts do is lower the intake port roof and turn the intakes into finger ports. You can make whatever cross section you wish just like other Pro cylinder heads.

For whatever reason there has been a reluctance to push this head for NHRA. The reason or reasons are debatable for sure.

Gary,
1170 HP was in 1996. The 455 made 2.53 HP/CI. Current NHRA hitter engines are about 2.75 HP/CI. IHRA Hemi's are at 2.15 HP/CI. Some Pro engine builders feel the B-441 can get the job done. 600 CFM with a proper CSA for a 500" is doable.

Gary,
 

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NHRA Pro-Stock like the NASCAR deal has become a RPM fest. Piston wt. , top ring placement and valve train design may be an issue for the hemi style heads in the 10,000 RPM + world .
 

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Lem Evans said:
NHRA Pro-Stock like the NASCAR deal has become a RPM fest. Piston wt. , top ring placement and valve train design may be an issue for the hemi style heads in the 10,000 RPM + world .
Lem makes an excellent point. 500" engines need big rpm, to make the power needed today. I know what the pistons in our 815" hemi weighed, and they weren't light, and we only spun it to the upper 7000's. With the length of the exhaust rockers on the hemi, valvetrain harmonics and weight come into play also. Not as easy as throwing together a good flowing set of heads and making power. :(
 

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can't see it happenin to political, and not enough R&D


But Gary you can do it with one of your CJ Iron headed motors can't you with all the HP you say you can build with them.......... how are those slicks doing rotting on your old prostocker???


cough cough: Warren Johnston


Randy
 

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Political

cougar1969 said:
can't see it happenin to political, and not enough R&D


But Gary you can do it with one of your CJ Iron headed motors can't you with all the HP you say you can build with them.......... how are those slicks doing rotting on your old prostocker???


cough cough: Warren Johnston


Randy
Randy,

Political is correct. R & D is correct. My old Glidden car is doing fine. Thanks for asking. :lol:

How is that fine back half piece doing? :lol:

Gary,

 

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Randy, How fast would Gary have to go with a Iron CJ for you guys to stop breaking his balls? :lol: I know my old 9.50 Iron Head Cleveland runs faster than at least one Blair bashers 69 stang. :shock:
 

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Dave Moore said:
Randy, How fast would Gary have to go with a Iron CJ for you guys to stop breaking his balls? :lol: I know my old 9.50 Iron Head Cleveland runs faster than at least one Blair bashers 69 stang. :shock:

Dave we will stop breaking his balls when he stops, his infernal hammering our tfs streets and all the other heads we try, and bad mouthing some great people on this board. and telling us how he builds iron CJ headed engines that make so much power..... Needless to say he supposed has these high HP engines that are so elusive to any one???? and how he always has done it better and more Hp than we do or have... and his infernal NAME dropping how he know so many big name people..... if the stupid SOB had any Balls he would come to the BASH, but we all know that ain't happenin, cuz he has no Balls to do so....


ok I will get off my Rampage.... but I think that about covers it... someone else may have an opinion...



JMHO
Randy


P.S. We can't or don't put any real world results up any more cuz he has to critisize every time we do, how he did it better with no proof.... :shock:
I'd like to meet the little sawed off SOB and shake his hand Tx style :shock:


Chilly before you said don't say it unless you would say it in person! well I think lots of people here know I would say it in person also..
 

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Randy, you & I are friends but please explain one thing to me. Where at in Gary's original post on this topic did he bash TFS street heads, any head,you, Charlie, or anyone for that matter???? Brother I think you are getting paranoid. Has that little waitress got your head a spinning :lol:
 

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x

I was just thinking ... :shock: ... , maybe Jon has other ideas concerning his Boss9 head! Would smaller combustion chambers, thought out rocker arm geometry, rocker arm placement and materials come to play in the NHRA P/S arena? Or, are the ports located and configured on Jon's Boss9 for the amount of air flow to produce the numbers to be NHRA P/S competitive? Am I in left field thinking Jon's head may achieve NHRA P/S numbers with the "right touch"? Isn't this the approach the Nickens boys went with the other HEMI?

Dave.
 
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