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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
building mud truck
1975 cj5 fully boxed frame,dana 44 front,ford 9inch 4.56 gearsor 5.13 in both. I want to be using 111 or higher race gas. havent purchased anything currently thinking 514 or higher stroker ohio crank or scat stroker kit,would like to spin around 6000rpm constant in a pit, block is D1VE with 4.390 bore,c8ve heads with 2.19 intake valves and 1.80 exhaust valves from ferrea, 1.7 roller rockers 3/8 pushrods and guide plates looking at rhese cams
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-416A3LUN/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-416A4LUN/
Iwill be running c6 and np205 t-case with stall converter 3000 rpm +will have msd 7al box an msd flying magnet crank trigger and msd crank trigger distributor. im looking for all and any input on this build
 

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Do your self a big favor right away and FORGET all about Ohio Crank.

Buy a kit from Probe, Scat or Eagle. Ohio Crank does not have a very good reputation on their QC. Cranks of theirs that I have seen personally.... Well I reground one 10/10 and refused to build the other 2 when their owners refused to fix them right.... both of them spun rods/mains in their first outing. The one I fixed is still running. Not to say Scat/Eagle/Probe can't have a bad day but Ohio Crank seems to have alot of bad days comparativley...

Flat tops in a 4.150/4.140 stroke motor will set you to 12.1SCR easily if you zero deck the block. That kind of compression will require at least 110 octane.

The second cam is the best of those 2 for a 514... You can do much better by calling a cam grinder and not Summit. My recomendation would be for you to give Mike Jones a call. He has done all my cams for the past 2 yrs (after Reed Cams closed) and I haven't had any HP or QC problems with his stuff.

http://www.jonescams.com/2006catalog_006.htm

Who is going to do the cyl head porting on those C8's? With 500+inches to feed your going to need some serious port work. I'd recomend you talk to the "Mad Porter" on the board here.

A lot depends on the average track depth/consistency and tire size for gear ratio recomendations.

I can tell you I'd run more converter than that even in a light truck. I'd look at 3800-4200RPM stall.

The engine is a big part of racing - but keep some $$$ to spend on your suspension. Look at what the fast guys are doing within your rules and copy them.
Will
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
the fast guys i actuall see running around here all have s10,s with leafs all around 2 leafs per pack and hydraulic steering up front even the one jeep guy is like that but they all run a chevy to no one around i have seen lately run a strong ford thats consistant in the kc,mo area
 

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just my opinion but get rid of the 1.7 rocker arms and go to a 1.73 or a 1.8 valve train geometry just doesnt seem right with a 1.7 like i said just my opinion and maybe some one will correct me if im wrong
 

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Not saying I have the best thing out there but like I said earlier, my little 466 does pretty well in my 3000lb ranger. For mud, wheel speed is key, especially in a light weight rig such as your CJ. Flat top pistons on a zero decked D1 block, and d0ve heads will get you into the 11.7:1 range and will need 110 fuel. I'm running a 5000 stall in my truck, but you need to wait to get the converter until almost last. Start back at knowing what you want to build. For a 514, give a call to Adney Brown at Performance Crankshaft and he'll set you up with the right rotating assembly. For your heads, while the c8's can be made to work well, you'd be money ahead to just call Lem Evans and pick up a set of FRPP SCJ heads (and make sure you order your pistons for the head you will be running to get the correct valve notches!!!). I spend a pretty good penny on my d0ve's to get them to flow close to what out of the box SCJ's flow. And since Lem seems to be running a super special pricing, it's the way to go as long as your class rules don't prohibit aluminum heads. Next, while you have him on the phone ordering your heads, talk with him about a custom grind cam that will maximize the performance of those heads. Solid roller is the way to go for a full out race motor, but if funds start tightening up, a good solid flat tappet will work for now.

I know of an a-headed 528 that made around 900hp on motor, but it's all about the combo and how you use it.
 

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the fast guys i actuall see running around here all have s10,s with leafs all around 2 leafs per pack and hydraulic steering up front even the one jeep guy is like that but they all run a chevy to no one around i have seen lately run a strong ford thats consistant in the kc,mo area
i like the idea of a big ford in a cj build, but not too sure about running d-44's up front and only two springs at each corner, that motor is going to twist those springs like a soggy pretzel if it gets some bite, and it doesn't take alot of axle wrap to watch your driveshafts fly out but you probably already know all this.
not to hi-jack your thread, working on a similar project, cj7,d60 hp up front, corporate 14 bolt rear, both narrowed and mosier hi-strength alloy at all 4 corners, don't have as much motor as you do. hope to hear more from you
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ill be running traction bars in the rear to keep wheel hop and axle wrap down and right now i currently have a yj 2 inch lift kit under it and the rear axle will be pushed back 10 to 15 inches for a better driveshaft angle
 

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i like the idea of a big ford in a cj build, but not too sure about running d-44's up front and only two springs at each corner, that motor is going to twist those springs like a soggy pretzel if it gets some bite, and it doesn't take alot of axle wrap to watch your driveshafts fly out but you probably already know all this.
not to hi-jack your thread, working on a similar project, cj7,d60 hp up front, corporate 14 bolt rear, both narrowed and mosier hi-strength alloy at all 4 corners, don't have as much motor as you do. hope to hear more from you
Nothing wrong with the 44, just have never liked front leaf springs in anything that goes fast, coils with radius arms work much better and makes it more driver friendly. Just a suggestion. None of the "FAST" trucks around here have leafs up front for that very reason, and I'm talking about the 3 to 5 second trucks in 200ft of mud. Some start out that way but quickly change the set-up when they see how ill it handles.
 

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Nothing wrong with the 44, just have never liked front leaf springs in anything that goes fast, coils with radius arms work much better and makes it more driver friendly. Just a suggestion. None of the "FAST" trucks around here have leafs up front for that very reason, and I'm talking about the 3 to 5 second trucks in 200ft of mud. Some start out that way but quickly change the set-up when they see how ill it handles.
I'm suprised that a 44 would hold up to that kind of hp & tq, but then again I'm sure the "mud" plays a major factor . As for my project, it will be a driver if I ever get it done. I think I've seen some vids of your truck if I'm not mistaken and I thought it was impressive.Take care
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ill be running a 38.5x15 bogger in the back and a 38x11 bogger up front i might end up with a ford coil spring setup up front but i doubt i will in the end everyome says with hydro steering you have full control and can go where you want the truck to go
 

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I'm suprised that a 44 would hold up to that kind of hp & tq, but then again I'm sure the "mud" plays a major factor . As for my project, it will be a driver if I ever get it done. I think I've seen some vids of your truck if I'm not mistaken and I thought it was impressive.Take care

D44's are as stout as can be under a purpose built mud truck, especially if the shafts have been upgraded to chromoly units and you keep the diff open. Weld, spool, or lock it and it will break every time! This is Johnny Martin's truck in SC, he runs a d35 from a Jeep under his truck and he's got a 700+ ci BBF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbCEiBeShc&feature=player_embedded
 

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ill be running a 38.5x15 bogger in the back and a 38x11 bogger up front i might end up with a ford coil spring setup up front but i doubt i will in the end everyome says with hydro steering you have full control and can go where you want the truck to go

I can attest to the coil spring setup being the way to go! For steering, there are several options you can try. The 1st being the stock box setup. 2nd being what I am taking off, which is a manual rack from a mustang. It worked very well for going straight, but it gets hard to hold when the track gets bumpy. The only reason I'm replacing it is due to a lack of clearance since I have no suspension lift and it puts the rack really close to my frame. I bent it this time out and since I have the parts, I'm going with option #3, which is the full hydro. I'm using a 1.5" bore x 8" stroke impliment ram I picked up at Tractor Supply. The Steering valve is a mini Danfoss unit that has a pretty good ratio when matched to my ram. For the pump I'm using a 12vdc hydraulic dump trailer pump with no real valving so that it contstantly feeds pressure to the steering valve.

Another option to the 12vdc pump, is racing steering pump from somewhere like Speedway Motors. Fairly cheap and will no over pressure at higher rpms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
starting a parts list for a 466 engine now
part description Part#
Scat H-beam rods 66605
SRP flat top pistons srp-150723
Total seal piston rings cr2690-30
looking at trick flow 1.73 full roller rockers 53400621
ARP main stud kit 155-5402
ARP head stud kit 155-4003
Scat harmonic balancer D-80008
Manley Guideplates 42160-8
Summit Racing® High-End Pushrods SUM-1438550
Fel-Pro Performance Head Gaskets Z1018
Fel-Pro Performance Intake Gasket Z1230
Fel-Pro Performance R.A.C.E. Gasket Z2712
Ford Racing Engine Swap Oil Pan Kits M-6675-A460
Canton Racing Windage Trays 20-966
John Kaase bbf oil pump
Edelbrock Victor Intake Manifold 2966 or 2965
MSD Flying Magnet Crank Trigger 8644
MSD Pro-Billet Crank Trigger Distributors 8569
MSD 6AL CD Ignition 6420
MSD Blaster TFI Coils 8227
MSD Universal Wiring Harnesses 8874
Holley Model 4500 Dominator Carb 0-80556-1
feel free to comment if you think anything should be changed or what could be better
 

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starting a parts list for a 466 engine now
part description Part#
Scat H-beam rods 66605
SRP flat top pistons srp-150723
Total seal piston rings cr2690-30
looking at trick flow 1.73 full roller rockers 53400621
ARP main stud kit 155-5402
ARP head stud kit 155-4003
Scat harmonic balancer D-80008
Manley Guideplates 42160-8
Summit Racing® High-End Pushrods SUM-1438550
Fel-Pro Performance Head Gaskets Z1018
Fel-Pro Performance Intake Gasket Z1230
Fel-Pro Performance R.A.C.E. Gasket Z2712
Ford Racing Engine Swap Oil Pan Kits M-6675-A460
Canton Racing Windage Trays 20-966
John Kaase bbf oil pump
Edelbrock Victor Intake Manifold 2966 or 2965
MSD Flying Magnet Crank Trigger 8644
MSD Pro-Billet Crank Trigger Distributors 8569
MSD 6AL CD Ignition 6420
MSD Blaster TFI Coils 8227
MSD Universal Wiring Harnesses 8874
Holley Model 4500 Dominator Carb 0-80556-1
feel free to comment if you think anything should be changed or what could be better
Sounds similar to mine, with a few exceptions. Not sure you want to go with the Total Seal rings. Get your self a good plasma-moly file fit ring and be done. I have the SRP rings and I'm spraying my motor. For a mud truck, you really don't need a crank trigger setup. If you do, make sure you cover it to keep mud out! I'm running a MSD Pro Billet 8577 dizzy with no problems. You didn't mention heads in this list, but if you are going this far, might as well ditch the c8 heads and get you a good set of race heads. And depending on which head will change your piston choice.

What cam? If it's race only, get a custom solid roller and be done. But that changes the needed springs, retainers, lifters, and possibly rockers. I went with Crower SS rockers to make sure they were strong enough to handle the added open pressures of the Manley Nextek spring package. Same goes for pushrods. Not saying that the Summit pushrods are junk, I just prefer to make sure it's a 3/8" .080 or better wall, hardened chromoly rod. In my case I went with a set of Trick Flow's.

And for a 466, I'm having no problem spinning my stock crank, SCAT h-beams, and SRP pistons to 7000 rpms. Very stable and reliable combo. Here's a link to my build from the other site if you want to see all of what I have in it:

http://www.429-460.com/proven-builds-f4/466-ranger-build-t5399.htm
 

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I agree that the Total Seal rings would be a waste of money on your engine... but the PN you have listed is just a plain old plasma moly ring and at $121.00 is a decent buy. However the Mahle 4395ML will do the same job at only $105.00 and its file fit (which is important)... your choice. They also offer a non file fit ring (4395SL) for the same $$$.

Outright wrong carb. 1150cfm is a bit stout for a 466. You will need a Holley PN 8896 or 9375.

I'm not sure that that your choice of oil pump and pan are going to work together without the use of a hammer. The pump is a good one. I'd perfer to see you use a better pan if you can afford and can fit one in there. Not sure about the clearance in your chassis but if you can run the full length pans like the Moroso -20614 and Milodon -31484 (and they come with a full length windage tray)... If you have to run a fox style rear sump swap pan I'd buy the one sold by Moroso or Milodon.

Your giving up some compression with those 4.5" bore head gaskets. Something along the lines of the Cometic CGT-C5666-040, SCE-535544 would be better suited depending on how far you bore it (your saying 466 and the rings say .030 so any of those would work).

There is no way to know what length pushrod you need until you assemble the engine and plot your rocker geometry. What you need is an adjustable pushrod in the 8"-9" range. I hate those cheap ones with the locking nuts.... As much as I dislike Comp Cams I will admit that their pushrod checking tools are much easier to use... PN 7703. When you are ready to buy pushrods 3/8 .080 CM (from a reputable mfgr) will work fine until you get up over 750LBS spring pressure and have the roller lobes to match it. Manley, TFS, Trend, Manton, Smith Bros are reputable mfgrs for pushrods...

I also think your wasting money on the crank trigger and inviting potential problems down the road. Regular MSD Pro Billet 8577 would be fine.

The rest looks OK. You are over paying on the rockers thou... A set of Scorpion's is only about $230 and they are as good as it gets for Alum stud mounts.
Will
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
McQ pm'ed me and said if i have no ci restrictions to go ahead with a 545 or bigger which ot yhe three kits are best choice for a 545 scat assembly SCA-1-47612B,SCA-1-47652BI,SCA-1-47632BI. i had also planned to call this cam company Cam Research Corporation 3881 S. Jason St. Englewood, CO 80110.http://www.camresearchcorp.com/
 

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Cam Research is also a good place to go for your cam needs. While I'm all for the bigger is beter crowd, I didn't get the feeling you wanted to put a ton of money into this thing, seeing as you originally were looking at running the c8 heads. Your power is in the heads/cam. Throw all the cubic inches you want at a motor, but if you can't let it breath, you are going no where.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
do i need the rocker arm stud girdles?
 
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