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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
A number of you wanted to know what my thoughts would be after running the Holley EFI on my Lincoln. A little background, 545 AFR heads, Torker II custom cam By the Mad. I chose the Holley XFlow ( 900 CFM supports up to 800 HP ) system along with the Hyperspark distributor, control box, and coil. All pretty much plug and play. Once installed there is a hand held device that is the control interface for the system, I can now let the system learn on it's own or if I choose I can also go in and tune it myself ( I'm not smart enough for that ) The system also controls the electric fuel pump with a built in harness, relay and fuse. They really thought it through.

Initially it ran for just under 100 miles and the fuel pump relay failed, towed it home. I had a spare relay of a better quality, replaced it and that part has been good since, I did buy two more Bosch spares and have them in the glove box.

All the companies that make these systems highly recommend an in tank pump to feed them. The gas tank in my car does not lay flat like most cars, it is wedged up in between the back of the back seat and trunk. It is similar to old Ford trucks with the tank behind the seat, only my tank is fatter and the seam runs around the center of the perimeter so fitting an in tank pump by measurement looked as though it wouldn't work so I chose the Fitech force fuel system which uses the stock mechanical pump to fill a 1/2 gallon tank that they have an electric pump in, it's a surge tank actually. They claim it will support 800 HP.

Long story short, the mechanical pump cannot keep up with the Aeromotive 340 LPH electric pump I installed in the surge tank and it overheated, towed it home again. Installed a bigger mechanical pump, some improvement but it also cannot keep the surge tank full and on full throttle pulls it runs out of fuel and falls on it's face. During all this I was getting frustrated with the added complication and thought strongly of going back to a carb. Me being me, I did a whole pros and cons list of giving up the EFI and doing the carb.

So, having said all that I'm going to keep the EFI, once I narrowed down what the actual problem was I'm determined to solve it. The car runs really really good with the system, the more I drive it the better it runs. I did not have any of the RFI interference issues that I've read about, and, I was really meticulous on the install. I can watch timing real time along with a whole bunch of other parameters such as air fuel ratio which can be changed and the system will take over from there, on and on. One of the things that owners talk about is idle control, I can vouch for that. I broke the engine/cam in with a carb, the idle as Scotty puts it was pretty snotty, once the EFI got to know the engine better it definitely changed the idle quality. It is still lumpy but noticeably smoother, same throughout the rest of the RPM range.

Holley has an in tank pump that I'm pretty sure will work with my tank so that is the next step. I will have to pull the tank, fill it with water to drill the hole for the pump and run a different supply line, not a terrible amount of work, the tank is easy to drop in this car, it being new makes it that much easier.

Bottom line, I would recommend the system, and, be aware there is a learning curve. Pay close attention to detail on install and as above feed it properly. So far non of the issues I've had were the fault of the system, just my choice of fuel supply due to my tank configuration. Hope this helps.

P.S. Scotty, this engine rocks! Makes this car a true gem to drive....

Dan
 

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What size fuel line from the tank to the mechanical pump? Assuming it's 3/8 tubing...before you tear everything apart you might try a low pressure electric at the tank to feed the mechanical. It's really tough to pull fuel from the tank all the way to the front of the car and a pump at the tank really helps this problem. It needs to be low pressure with your setup.It also doesn't need to have big flow numbers.Any filters need to be on the pressure side of the high pressure electric.
 

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I used the Tanks.com by Yogis in tank pump and couldn't be happier.
Will hold up to 7500 RPM with no problems and the install wasn't that hard.
Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I thought about a second pump back at the tank, my 85 Euro BMW M6 was set up that way, many cars are for that matter. In doing my pros/cons list it added more complication than I already have and want to make the system as "simple" as possible. I already have the Holley retro in tank pump on the way. Based on the measurement they give of the diameter of the mounting head and the width of the foam gasket that it has I'm almost certain it will work. I also went for the bigger 450 LPH pump due to the length of the car and the amount of fuel line needed to plumb the system, it will also give room to grow if I ever decide to add more power....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I thought about a second pump back at the tank, my 85 Euro BMW M6 was set up that way, many cars are for that matter. In doing my pros/cons list it added more complication than I already have and want to make the system as "simple" as possible. I already have the Holley retro in tank pump on the way. Based on the measurement they give of the diameter of the mounting head and the width of the foam gasket that it has I'm almost certain it will work. I also went for the bigger 450 LPH pump due to the length of the car and the amount of fuel line needed to plumb the system, it will also give room to grow if I ever decide to add more power....cause like garage space there's never enough....
 

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Thanks for the info and feedback on the EFI.
For simple, given limitations of your tank, you could use an in-line high pressure pump and install just that at tank. Need 3/8 supply and return lines. Ditch the 2nd reservoir.

Getting ready to fire my Holley EFI. Plan to break in cam on EFI, Don't have a known good carb. There are some parameters you can set to aid initial startup.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thought about the in line pump as well, I've heard to many of them at shows and tracks that were way to loud for my liking. I know that is an install issue and due to cavitation, I'm willing to do the extra work needed to get the in tank pump working. I'll let y'all know how it turns out. The EFI does seem to be worth the effort in how the engine runs, crisp is another way I would describe it. Good luck Justin, let me know how it goes with your system.

All fuel lines are 6an which is 3/8" including the return, I have two filters one a 100 micron for birds and rocks the other a 10 micron for the EFI The 100 micron is a stainless mesh type and the 10 is a media/mesh combination.

Dan
 

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Seems like alot of nonsense just to make the car run. Just put a carburetor on it with a 29 dollar mechanical pump. With a gram hpg1 fuel filter, you'll never have a problem.
 

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-6 lines are rarely if ever 3/8 and the fittings are really restrictive compared to 3/8 hard line.In your case,-8 would be recommended from the tank to the front,no matter what you decide to do.
 

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I have a question about this. My main and only concern with switching to EFI is that I hate the delay when you mash the pedal! A carb is so raw and instant. Do you notice that? No matter how slight?
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Hi Keith,
The Fitech fuel supply system I chose in my opinion is only good for maybe a stock car using the stock mechanical fuel pump. I don't know how Fitech can claim that the Force fuel system can support 800 HP as installed on my car. This is the only experience I've ever had with a surge tank and at this point not willing to run two electric pumps, one to feed the surge tank and the other for the engine. To answer your question, if I drive the car normally for a mile or two the mechanical pump has a chance to get some fuel in the surge tank, I can then stop, mash the pedal to the floor and the throttle response is instantaneous, no hesitation at all. The long black stripes I left on some local pavement attests to how well the EFI works.

My problems start when in traffic and idling allot, the low engine RPM doesn't keep the mechanical pump going fast enough to get quite enough fuel to the surge tank for full throttle pulls, hence the 340 LPH electric pump which runs full speed all the time can't get enough fuel for dead stop full throttle, if say I'm in traffic and make it to a red light, light goes green and I mash it, it tries but falls on it's face, tries again, falls on it's face. If I start out normally and get going up to 20-30 mph or so then mash it the throttle response is absolutely instant and the car fly's.

The system has allot of tuning capability, if you are reading about people having hesitation problems it can absolutely be tuned out, like a carb it has an acceleration enrichment setting that can be adjusted via the handheld, after that the whole fuel map can be tuned to the engine and car, some of the systems like mine can be hooked to a laptop and all kinds of things can be fiddled with. As I mentioned earlier I'm not smart enough for some of the tuning the EFI is capable of.

I'm just being methodical, I have to resolve the fuel supply first, I now have a retro fit 450 LPH in tank pump that I will be installing soon and getting rid of all the Fitech stuff. It will be a simple pump in the tank, supply line to the throttle body, return line from there to the regulator then back to the tank with the required filtration between the pump and the EFI. Once I resolve that and verify that I have a constant 60 psi +/- fuel pressure I'll move on to some of the other parameters the system is capable of.

Trust me, I was very tempted to go back to the simplicity of a carb, very....and, the way the EFI runs otherwise makes me want to give it a fair chance. I'll keep y'all posted, I'll be installing the in tank this week so should know something this coming weekend.
 

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I have a question about this. My main and only concern with switching to EFI is that I hate the delay when you mash the pedal! A carb is so raw and instant. Do you notice that? No matter how slight?
There should be no delay with properly tuned EFI. EFI should have superior response on tip in or WOT than a carb. Accel pump enrichment, timing and many other adjustable parameter giving you complete control. But it can be overwhelming also.

A good example are the newer EFI dirt bikes, amazing response simply not possible with a carb!
 

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I think the delay issue is the newer cars with the electronic controlled gas pedal. My 13 Boss 302 had a delay with the pedal and I had to buy a add on box to solve that problem. My Sniper units have no delay.
Greg
 

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Wow that’s very intriguing. Honestly my only reason for thinking there’s a delay is that’s how every modern car feels. If you’re really trying, you can mash the metal and let off as fast as you can without the engine revving at all. That’s simply impossible with a carb. I just assumed it was all the communication between the computer and injectors.
 

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Keep in mind that every year manufacturers are required to meet ever more stringent vehicle emissions regulations. Calibration engineers come up with some pretty creative ways to reduce those emissions. Dumbing down the throttle response like Greg was talking about is just one of many examples.
 
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