timing and fuel mixture can turn the manifold to hot , both together is a guarantee . timing can be set (close) if you know the dist. curve . over advance is not so much an issue when there is no load on the engine .
overheating engine - red hot exhaust manifolds during cam break in
Hello 460 enthousiasts,
Yesterday I started my 460 for the first time after a complete engine rebuild.
It fired up immediately and we ran it for about 5 minutes starting the cam break in.
I had to shut it down because the exhaust manifolds and part of the exhaust pipe were red glowing and some copper grease on one of the exhaust bolts started to burn.
After shutdown about 6 liters (1.5 galon) of cooling fluid squirted out through the radiator overflow hose.
Apparently the engine is running pretty hot!
I know 460's can get hot, but is this normal during cam break in?
After letting the engine cool down a little bit and refilling coolant we ran the engine for 25 minutes between 2000-2500 rpm.
Because it was a hot day yesterday (86F/30C) I used an additional fan in front of the grille en cooled the radiator extra with compressed air.
After shutting down the engine, again the same story, 6 liters gone through the radiator overflow hose.
Waterpump is ok
thermostat is ok
fan is ok
heater was turned on, so air bubbles should be out of the system
radiator is ok, maybe larger capacity needed...
no leaks
no air filter used during cam break in
regular (euro 95 octane) fuel
Could the air fuel mixture have been to lean?
Normaly I drive this car on LPG (autogas) so I never bothered to much about the carburator or it's settings
Could ignition timing have something to do with it?
I set the initial timing at 10 degrees BTDC (no vacuum advance) and left it like that during cam break in.
You can not set initial timing properly with a timing light during cam break in because you can not let the engine idle...
Which of you 460 guru's can advice me on this overheating issue.
Any comment is appreciated!
Kind regards,
Gijs Ankoné
Arnhem, The Netherlands
Yesterday I started my 460 for the first time after a complete engine rebuild.
It fired up immediately and we ran it for about 5 minutes starting the cam break in.
I had to shut it down because the exhaust manifolds and part of the exhaust pipe were red glowing and some copper grease on one of the exhaust bolts started to burn.
After shutdown about 6 liters (1.5 galon) of cooling fluid squirted out through the radiator overflow hose.
Apparently the engine is running pretty hot!
I know 460's can get hot, but is this normal during cam break in?
After letting the engine cool down a little bit and refilling coolant we ran the engine for 25 minutes between 2000-2500 rpm.
Because it was a hot day yesterday (86F/30C) I used an additional fan in front of the grille en cooled the radiator extra with compressed air.
After shutting down the engine, again the same story, 6 liters gone through the radiator overflow hose.
Waterpump is ok
thermostat is ok
fan is ok
heater was turned on, so air bubbles should be out of the system
radiator is ok, maybe larger capacity needed...
no leaks
no air filter used during cam break in
regular (euro 95 octane) fuel
Could the air fuel mixture have been to lean?
Normaly I drive this car on LPG (autogas) so I never bothered to much about the carburator or it's settings
Could ignition timing have something to do with it?
I set the initial timing at 10 degrees BTDC (no vacuum advance) and left it like that during cam break in.
You can not set initial timing properly with a timing light during cam break in because you can not let the engine idle...
Which of you 460 guru's can advice me on this overheating issue.
Any comment is appreciated!
Kind regards,
Gijs Ankoné
Arnhem, The Netherlands
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Timing retarded.
Put money on it.
Put money on it.
are you sure the head gaskets are on right, timing can be a big issue also, buy i would recheck everything.
we just fired up our 466 too! our headers ran red hot also. however we did let the engine cool completely between runs. when the temps got hot we just shut her down. the engine was equipped with a mechanical nylon fan one inch off the radiator, a shrouded electric fan set up as a pusher. the car had no grill in place to block air flow.
...anyhow every time we ran it in, the exhaust headers and water temps came down. we got more and more time between runs before the engine temps peaked. after the fourth run or so it seems just fine. (we did change the oil, filter and additives in between rounds) hope that helps some. zephyrbob.
and to add more info we did set timing, hook up the vacuum advance. now i am re-jetting the carb
...anyhow every time we ran it in, the exhaust headers and water temps came down. we got more and more time between runs before the engine temps peaked. after the fourth run or so it seems just fine. (we did change the oil, filter and additives in between rounds) hope that helps some. zephyrbob.
and to add more info we did set timing, hook up the vacuum advance. now i am re-jetting the carb
Are you sure you installed a backing plate on the water pump ? Randy.
Same issues..
Everyone,
I am having the same issues with my car, 10 deg timing A/F mixture is fine. My motor is broken in, everytime I take it and drive it, get's up to 205 and still climb's up to about 210 then I shut it down.
Also trying to start the car up is another problem with everthing hot, engine does not want to turn over real well and run the batt down trying to get it to start. Batt is good it's 850 CCA Ti from AAP.
Just frustrated trying to get this car out for the car show's and misc cruzing...
Sorry for the thread jack but I am in the same situation. Everthing listed above in this post is almost exact what I have.... I am to the point now where I am going to buy an aftermarket water pump and take off my stock one... and hope for the best
DW
Everyone,
I am having the same issues with my car, 10 deg timing A/F mixture is fine. My motor is broken in, everytime I take it and drive it, get's up to 205 and still climb's up to about 210 then I shut it down.
Also trying to start the car up is another problem with everthing hot, engine does not want to turn over real well and run the batt down trying to get it to start. Batt is good it's 850 CCA Ti from AAP.
Just frustrated trying to get this car out for the car show's and misc cruzing...
Sorry for the thread jack but I am in the same situation. Everthing listed above in this post is almost exact what I have.... I am to the point now where I am going to buy an aftermarket water pump and take off my stock one... and hope for the best
DW
Update with Youtube movies!
Hello 460 enthousiasts,
Many ThAnX so far for your comments!
I uploaded 2 movies on youtube, check:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeF6Q6_hHvU and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AW19PLFuFU and see for yourself....
The water pump backing plate is on, see: http://www.hyperlinc.nl/ford-460-rebuild/InstallingTimingChainCoverWaterPump/frontcoverplaatsen.html
Head gaskets see: http://www.hyperlinc.nl/ford-460-rebuild/InstallingValveSpringsCylinderHeads/letopdevoorkant.html
Kind Regards
Gijs Ankone
(Arnhem, The Netherlands)
Hello 460 enthousiasts,
Many ThAnX so far for your comments!
I uploaded 2 movies on youtube, check:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeF6Q6_hHvU and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AW19PLFuFU and see for yourself....
The water pump backing plate is on, see: http://www.hyperlinc.nl/ford-460-rebuild/InstallingTimingChainCoverWaterPump/frontcoverplaatsen.html
Head gaskets see: http://www.hyperlinc.nl/ford-460-rebuild/InstallingValveSpringsCylinderHeads/letopdevoorkant.html
Kind Regards
Gijs Ankone
(Arnhem, The Netherlands)
This is usually the culprit ... use a vaccuum advance or advance the timing much more than you have it.Timing retarded.
Put money on it.
BOTH to lean, (excessive combustion chamber heat), or to rich, (fuel still burning in the exhaust pipe), will also cause this.
As long as the engine doesn't overheat, it shouldn't be a major problem for break-in on a dyno. In a vehicle it is a different story
Agreed.
I think timing is too retarded and mixture is probably too lean. Did this on my son's sbc. header primaries glowed cherry red until we dialed it in.
I think timing is too retarded and mixture is probably too lean. Did this on my son's sbc. header primaries glowed cherry red until we dialed it in.
Just to be sure, I'd put a rad psi checking pump on it. Pump it up and see if it holds psi.
sounds like timing to me in one of the videos when you were trying to crank the car sounded like timing was off also looked like clutch fan was not working very good fan did not look like it was turning very fast
Update
Hello 460 enthousiast,
Tonight I checked my ingnition timing at wich i broke in my cam.
I connected the vacuum advance hose and just to be sure I advanced a couple of degrees and started the engine.
The engine idled @750 rpm and was @ exactly 0 degrees BTDC...
So I broke in my cam for 25 minutes between 2000-2500 rpm with to much advance!
-3 degrees instread of if i'd have to guess...
Before I started the engine I checked my spark plugs, al 8 like new!
Looked into the spark plug holes onto the pistons, like new!
I started the engine en set initial timing @ 12 degrees BTDC /750 rpm
I let is run for five minutes between 750-2000 rpm.
The temperature was a completely different story.
I could still touch my radiator after the 5 minute run and the exhaust manifolds stayed the same color.
Afterwards I changes my running in oil (with zddp) and filter.
The oil felt smooth between my fingers and there was just a minor bit of gray metalish stuff in the magnet oil pan plug.
Oil filter same story, light brown oil with just a light metalisch film in the oil.
I guess the next oil change will contain less "metal film" in the oil.
We'll see....
A/F mixture is hard to measure for me because I don't have the right tools, but the exhaust gas smelled as if it was rich enough (smelled like an engine with a little bit of choke)
ThankX everyone fou your replies!
Gijs Ankoné
The Netherlands
Hello 460 enthousiast,
Tonight I checked my ingnition timing at wich i broke in my cam.
I connected the vacuum advance hose and just to be sure I advanced a couple of degrees and started the engine.
The engine idled @750 rpm and was @ exactly 0 degrees BTDC...
So I broke in my cam for 25 minutes between 2000-2500 rpm with to much advance!
-3 degrees instread of if i'd have to guess...
Before I started the engine I checked my spark plugs, al 8 like new!
Looked into the spark plug holes onto the pistons, like new!
I started the engine en set initial timing @ 12 degrees BTDC /750 rpm
I let is run for five minutes between 750-2000 rpm.
The temperature was a completely different story.
I could still touch my radiator after the 5 minute run and the exhaust manifolds stayed the same color.
Afterwards I changes my running in oil (with zddp) and filter.
The oil felt smooth between my fingers and there was just a minor bit of gray metalish stuff in the magnet oil pan plug.
Oil filter same story, light brown oil with just a light metalisch film in the oil.
I guess the next oil change will contain less "metal film" in the oil.
We'll see....
A/F mixture is hard to measure for me because I don't have the right tools, but the exhaust gas smelled as if it was rich enough (smelled like an engine with a little bit of choke)
ThankX everyone fou your replies!
Gijs Ankoné
The Netherlands
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
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