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Discussion Starter #21
Revised large valve flow figures... They are better....

Did some additional R&D on the procomps and have some interesting findings.

The exhaust port is in fact capable of more flow with some additional size added in the right places.

I managed to delay the uglyness that occurs on the intake side until .660" lift with additional short turn work. This does however start to diminish lower lift flow so I feel that this is the stop point.

Revised flow rates are as follows:

.100" / 52 / 84
.200" / 108 / 159
.300" / 159 / 220
.400" / 190 / 270
.500" / 220 / 303
.600" / 237 / 325
.700" / 242 / ..... 331 @ .660"
.800" / 245 /

The average intake flow rates are better than any of the dove iron heads I have available until .600" lift and the exhaust are just as good as the TFS streets till the same lift but with a smaller port cross section.

Seems to me that 650 to 700 HP is about the most I would reasonably expect from these castings N/A. While the intake flow hits a wall the exhaust is far better than any dove iron stuff and this will be an advantage although I can not venture a guestimate as to how much.

Seems fair to say that the std port stuff can be ordered as follows:

Small valve D3's no porting
Small valve D0VE's no porting
Small valve pro comp as cast seat no porting

Small valve D3 iron heads
Small valve D0VE iron heads
Small valve procomps fully ported

Large valve D3
Large valve D0VE
Large valve procomp
TFS steet castings as cast
TFS streets fully ported.

Hope this helps clarify the procoms place in the order of things passenger car port sized.




8)
 

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Hey, Scotty....

Hey, Scotty, you lost me on the pecking order thing. I just worked a graveyard shift and drank 30 beers, so forgive me if it's obvious. 8)


PS: I just witnessed the valve job on my D3 heads that I ported per your specs. And my house just SOLD !!!!! Oh, and I have 8 more beers.

I'M DEBT FREE !!!!

Sorry if this is off topic. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Re: Hey, Scotty....

cletus66 said:
Hey, Scotty, you lost me on the pecking order thing. I just worked a graveyard shift and drank 30 beers, so forgive me if it's obvious. 8)


PS: I just witnessed the valve job on my D3 heads that I ported per your specs. And my house just SOLD !!!!! Oh, and I have 8 more beers.

I'M DEBT FREE !!!!

Sorry if this is off topic. :p
Heads are grouped in three seperate catagories from worst to best.
The TFS come only with large valves hence their inclusion only in the last grouping.



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Thanks for the R&D effort and info, Scott. 8)

What really pisses me off about this new casting is that damn intake port. Aside from the intake, the head has some real potential...but unfortunately, the intake port is what it is and so the head delivers far less than what it really could have been, had that intake port been engineered instead of loosely copied and resembling something of yesteryear's port design(s). (That clause about being "loosely copied instead of engineered" is a presumption of mine, but even if I am mistaken, it doesn't make the port any better.)



Also, Scott, look at the photo above...specifically the intake flange/port on the valve train side--insufficient material for an agressive CJ portmatch! Even a D3VE/D0VE has more material in that area to allow for a more gradual transition from the manifold side of the intake flange to the inner passenger car port.

I truly feel this ProComp casting could benefit tremendously from a mold revision in much of the areas of the intake port...it's just killing the potentilal of the head.

Paul
 

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One nice thing about that intake flange Paul is that the head is made from aluminum and welding some additional material into that area would be pretty easy. I do wish they would have put at least a little more thought into the casting design.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I most certainly agree with regard to the intake port...

DaveMcLain said:
One nice thing about that intake flange Paul is that the head is made from aluminum and welding some additional material into that area would be pretty easy. I do wish they would have put at least a little more thought into the casting design.
As stated elsewhere in this post I dont feel it would have been hard at all to make the intake port much better than it is.

I will use a pair on my truck build and see just how well they compare to my iron stuff.




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Procomp BBF Heads

I read with great interest the thread on this head. I placed a bid on a
pair of these heads being offered on ebay. I was originally going to use
the TFS "Street" 460 heads. My plan is to open up the intake to accept a 2.25" valve, and the exhaust to accept a 1.76" valve.

This is my first experience with Aluminum heads. I have done cast iron
D0VE heads before; the usual bowl work, grinding away the egr bumps,
and unshrouding the intake & exhaust valves and then a 3 angle valve
job. I have never fooled with re-shaping the "short-side" radius, or
modified the "floor" or "roof" of the runners.

After reading about your experiences with the heads, I'm wondering
if it's really worth the effort. I had planned on just opening up the the
TFS heads to accept a 2.25" intake, polish the chambers and that would
be it.

I also had a machinist tell me that 3 angle valve jobs are "old-school"
That he does a "radiused" type of valve job.
But he does mostly SBC & SBF heads. Any thoughts on that ?

Please forgive my "long-winded" post.

Devbravo :?:
 

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Just about everyone has their own idea of what works on a performance valve job.
Generally., (it's really simplifying a very delicate balance), multiple distinct angles of the correct width and angle is what is mostly used on an intake seat and a couple distinct angles with a form of radius bottoming is used on most exhausts.
 

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Pro Comp heads

Scotty J,

I noticed this pro comp head on ebay item # 330025450066.It has 75 CC chamber 290 cc runner size 2.190 intake 1.71 exh. They are claiming 340 cfm on the intakes and 230 cfm on the exh. Is this a new head that pro comp has came out with or are they blowing smoke. I can't remember if the flow numbers were at 28 " or something lower. This may be another scam on evil bay .

Blake
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Re: Pro Comp heads

IDT-572 said:
Scotty J,

I noticed this pro comp head on ebay item # 330025450066.It has 75 CC chamber 290 cc runner size 2.190 intake 1.71 exh. They are claiming 340 cfm on the intakes and 230 cfm on the exh. Is this a new head that pro comp has came out with or are they blowing smoke. I can't remember if the flow numbers were at 28 " or something lower. This may be another scam on evil bay .

Blake
Not a new head. Those numbers are very possible. At issue for me is the loss of low and mid lift flow that occures when the port is shaped for higher lift flow. Given the intended audience and use of these castings I feel it it more important to concentrate the flow curve from .100" to about .650". Hell I have the exhaust near 250 anyway and I am sure over time i will tweek and find a few more on the intakes.

Simply put it is a matter of porting for the application. I do not see these castings even comparing on a dyno to the fully worked TFS streets so why bother using / porting them to take the place of the tfs stuff.


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That's good to know, thanks Scott! :)

"I do not see these castings even comparing on a dyno to the fully worked TFS streets so why bother using/porting them to take the place of the tfs stuff. "
 

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Scotty I hope you don't mind but with all the questions about these heads I had decided to make a sticky so all can have informed info, after working on a new thread (then abandoning it) I decided to Stick this thread as there is a ton of useful facts in here.
 

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Missed this thread during all my searching... This is indeed the information that I was after and I'm sure other people were too. Thanks for unearthing this thread!!
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Scotty I hope you don't mind but with all the questions about these heads I had decided to make a sticky so all can have informed info, after working on a new thread (then abandoning it) I decided to Stick this thread as there is a ton of useful facts in here.
This is a pretty old thread. I have since discovered much additional information about wet flow, intake port flow bias being incorrect, etc etc. I am going to need to transfer some of the information in other threads I have posted information on to this thread. The original positive feelings i had about these castings have been tempered by the quality of flow issues, odd wet flow characteristics and poor flow bias discovered in the poorly engineered intake port.

Peter Ken the owner of procomp whom I had spoken with on a number of occasions at the time I originally posted this had a chance to make a really good cylinder head however he did not.

I will add to this as time allows...

For all who read this remember:

The PC castings is a decent replacement casting in aluminum for the D3 head.

It is NOT a high performance head like the TFS street nor is it a replacement for said TFS street.

The casting itself is actually quite good though the valve job, cheap parts and poor assembly technique that procomp utilised make the assembled castings a no go in my opinion. Most of the ebay versions of these castings are crap in my opinion. They are cheaply assembled and misrepresented.

If Randy Malick, myself or others here outfit the castings with good parts, add a good valve job, do some minor port work and what not they are not a bad head for say under 550 HP applications however in fully ported max effort trim they are lucky to be 5% better than a max effort pair of D0VE's. Again this is a quality of intake flow issue.



I will and hope Randy will entertain reasonable questions about these castings in this thread. I will not put up with any unnecessary bashing, BS or trouble making here. With that being said I hope we can give an honest asessment of them and put this constant sore spot to rest...

:D
 

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Scotty if there is any bashing the posts will be deleted as I want this to be an informative thread. I appreciate any assistance in educating people on these heads you or Randy can or will provide as well as others.

Thank you!
 
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