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It is my understanding that the longevity issue stems from how far the piston comes out of the bore at bottom dead center when using a 4.5" stroke configuration with a production block such as in the 545/557. What seems to happen is, with the piston comes so far out of the bore @ BDC it will rock in the bore and cease to be square with the cylinder. When this happens the bottom of the cylinder wall acts like scraper and scuffs the piston skirt causing excessive wear to the skirt. Wear that wouldn't normally happen or be as severe with the 4.3" stroke used in the 521/532 stroker confuguration as the piston stays a bit farther up in the bore @ BDC. Now this will tend to be compounded when using a piston, like a 2618 forging that requires more clearance and looser fit in the bore. Add to that even more clearance during cold starts and for nitrous and/or forced induction applicatios and it gets worse. All this leads to greatly reduced piston life which is why most engines you see built with the 4.5" stroke aren't ones that get driven all that much or they are strictly used on the track and will get torn down or changed up seasonally or at least before they fail (maybe).
Bear in mind that a piston is the stated diameter......at the gauge point. It isn't that big anywhere else. The skirt is tapered from the guage point to below the oil ring, then the diameter steps down about .030/.040, then the top land steps down another .040 (if it's over .300). So a piston that is 4.386 a the gauge point is around 4.356 at the ring lands....allowing it to rock all the more.

This is why I dislike the 351C with a 4.000 stroke and a 6.000 rod.

As for the 4.500 Stroke....you do have room to run a longer rod.
 

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Since we are talking pistons. With pin locations 1.350 and less oil ring support rails are usually needed. RaceTec Pistons is one I know of that has a 1.350 distance that doesn't need support rails. I guess the ring lands are either closer together or the top ring land is higher. That's fine if it's NA.

My question is do oil support rails cause increased oil consumption in a street engine? If so do you have to decrease timing to account for oil in combustion chamber?
 

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Since we are talking pistons. With pin locations 1.350 and less oil ring support rails are usually needed. RaceTec Pistons is one I know of that has a 1.350 distance that doesn't need support rails. I guess the ring lands are either closer together or the top ring land is higher. That's fine if it's NA.

My question is do oil support rails cause increased oil consumption in a street engine? If so do you have to decrease timing to account for oil in combustion chamber?
No, I'm running Perfect Circle rings with supports on mine. No oil consumption issues to speak of. If you ran them without the supports, you could have issues. Old 347 stroker Windsors had issues with that.
 

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No, I'm running Perfect Circle rings with supports on mine. No oil consumption issues to speak of. If you ran them without the supports, you could have issues. Old 347 stroker Windsors had issues with that.
I just had a builder call about a customer motor that came in. The customer left the oil supports out and packed the rings with grease so they wouldn't fall out.

It's Tuesday in my world.
 

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Since we are talking pistons. With pin locations 1.350 and less oil ring support rails are usually needed. RaceTec Pistons is one I know of that has a 1.350 distance that doesn't need support rails. I guess the ring lands are either closer together or the top ring land is higher. That's fine if it's NA.

My question is do oil support rails cause increased oil consumption in a street engine? If so do you have to decrease timing to account for oil in combustion chamber?
Pretty much all of us can do the 1.350 without supports.

No. It is not an issue
 

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Since we are talking pistons. With pin locations 1.350 and less oil ring support rails are usually needed. RaceTec Pistons is one I know of that has a 1.350 distance that doesn't need support rails. I guess the ring lands are either closer together or the top ring land is higher. That's fine if it's NA.

My question is do oil support rails cause increased oil consumption in a street engine? If so do you have to decrease timing to account for oil in combustion chamber?
Making a 1.350 C/H piston with no support is easy, but that doesn't make it a good idea. You have to squeeze the second and third lands AND make the top land smaller.

If we could get decent ring packs for big Fords, the game would change. Something like a .043 .043 3.0 that is available in both Moly and Steel would make me happy. Currently, I can get anything I want....as long as it is 1/16 1/16 3/16.
 

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Not hard at all 545ci with afr 315 heads, 11.7 comp, 258/270 @.050 .650 lift hydraulic roller with solid lifters, afr intake, 1050 carb............bang 800+hp 750+tq............all on pump gas and all done at 6000rpm.....ultimate street car!! IMO

Cheers, Bob
Do you have a dyno sheet for this engine ? ....
 

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How hard is it to build a 545 that makes 800hp on pump gas? Also if you bumped up the compression to 13.5 or 14.1 could you make 1000hp n/a without the aid of any power adders? Can you do this with the old 660 center squirters?
Did anyone ever get around to asking you what your plans were for the engine ? What Use ?

Your power output will much depend on the heads you use. What's your head choice ?

"old 660 center squirters ? " No

1,000 hp out of a 545 = 1.83 hp per cube. That is not an easy target even with very good parts. It will take some work to pull it off With some very good heads and intake combo.

If you can, stay away from boring production blocks to .080+ ... I'd not recommend it. I lost an engine to a pinhole leak thru a cly wall. I know 3 others that the same has happened even with good sonic tests. Bore .030 - .040 - .060 over but not .080 if you don't absolutely need to.
 

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Do you have a dyno sheet for this engine ? ....

Bob is referencing one of our pump gas engine combos.

Dyno sheet. VE table is high which make the AF numbers look lean.


Build album:
Comp cams XM custom profile actually measured out at 260 / 272 on the Performance trends cam analyser and when checked in the engine.




SJ
used 2b RHP


.
91616
 

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FYI... A 528" 11.25:1 A headed pump gas engine I had built some years back: ( there's a thread in here somewhere) 4.42 x 4.30 solid roller. I'll find the thread tomorrow or post up the specs.








I'll dig up a dyno sheet for the 10.8:1 855 hp A-head 565 I ran for years


528" Specs
Dove A block .060 over 4.42 bore aftermarket 4 bolt main conversion ( Paul Kane)
521" FRPP kit 4.30" stoke, Eagle rods,replaced SRP pistons with JE's to work with A-460 heads'93 A-460 heads 2.3 intake heads flow 420 cfm at .750
Schneider solid roller: @ .050" 276-284 ( adv. 306-312) lobe lift .430int - .435ex, lobe sep 112gross lift .744int .752 ex
Danny Bee belt drive, Crower Enduro Stainless rockers, Crower hippo solid roller lifters, Manton pushrods, Isky Tool room valve springs (PSI) , MSD crank trigger, Jomar stud girdle and a few other good parts
Pump gas build to run 11:25:1 compression. Ran on 91 octane with 28* timing
 

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Bob is referencing one of our pump gas engine combos.

Dyno sheet. VE table is high which make the AF numbers look lean.


Build album:
Comp cams XM custom profile actually measured out at 260 / 272 on the Performance trends cam analyser and when checked in the engine.




SJ
used 2b RHP


. View attachment 91616
Great results.
 

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Dyno sheet from year 2000. 565 4.6 x 4.25 10.8:1 A-460 heads

pk trq 710 @ 5,400

pk HP 855 @ 6,500

837 @ 6,800

 

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Dyno sheet from year 2000. 565 4.6 x 4.25 10.8:1 A-460 heads

pk trq 710 @ 5,400

pk HP 855 @ 6,500

837 @ 6,800

G-Code yes that was a MAD PORTER build, he also speced a cam for 521ci, 11.7 comp, 295 afr heads pump gas mad 814hp at 6300rpm and 748tq. These are the ultimate street/strip pump gas he builds.

What do you think the 521ci p-51 build on yellow bullet will make?.........will be interesting to see what it makes with the MAFIA intake on that build.

Cheers. Bob
 
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