460 Ford Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did a 400 to 460 transplant in my 78 Ford F250 this winter. Had a timing issue that you guys helped me sort out but now I have a new issue to tackle. This big engine runs a heck of a lot hotter than the 400 it replaced.

Less than 2000 miles and a fresh 460 rebuild, new 4 core radiator with dual electric fans, ford water pump, Nastolgic Air, C6 transmission, NP Transfer Case, 33-inch tires, 4-inch lift, 410 gears in Dana 60 limited-slip rear end, dana 44 front.

I have a "Robert Shaw 180 thermostat, flushed the system already twice, changed the oil 3 times since build. Added cold air intakes to air cleaner as well.

It runs fine on the highway but in town, it gets above the normal area on the stock gauge. I can tell it is hot because it starts to ping a little even with premium gas with an octane booster in it.

Do you think an Edlebrock water pump would help?
Any other ideas I am simply out of thoughts.
92849
92850
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
Im sure you realize this but the first thing you need is an actual temp gauge (even if just temporary), the factory gauges are notoriously inaccurate.
What is the outside temperature when this happens?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am getting an entire new gauge cluster soon but I do realize it is not accurate. It is around 90 here in St. Louis these days. It is not blowing any antifreeze out of the overflow but I can tell it is hot when the pinging starts. I was fighting that for a while and a few guys helped me get that sorted out. I think it is running around 230 from what I can tell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
I'm finalizing my cooling system now and have some theories...
1st though is electric fans will not move enough air. I went mechanical which is 2-5x the CFM of any e-fan setup with no additional electrical load. e-fans are great for cars but a big heavy truck is a different story. are fans in a shroud? looks like you have some gaskets to seal up core support, that is good. more pics would help. What is AFR at cruise and idle? lean is hot.

230 isn't that hot. that is normal for my mustang here in phx.

Ping is bad. What is quench distance? piston in the hole? what spark plug?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here is the radiator and fan setup. I have the CVF bracket system as well. The picture is before the HEI distributor setup or the cold air intake.
92852

92851
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,378 Posts
Use a high flow thermostat. 4364 Mr. Gasket for example. Larger area for water flow.

What is your timing curve and vacuum advance?

When you can verify actual temps with a gauge checked with an infrared thermometer it would be most helpful.

The 1 to 1 pulleys are not helping. AC pulleys have an overdriven wp pulley.







Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Log into Facebook
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Is there room enough space for a big single fan? No pics looking straight down from front of engine to see what the clearance is between radiator and water pump pulley. I would bet a single fan, say something like a Lincoln Mark VIII fan will cool MUCH better than both those small fans combined. I believe that shroud/dual fan assembly in your pic helps at idle speeds but once up to cruise MPH the shroud blocks WAY too much airflow. A '94-'97 T-bird/Cougar two speed cooling fan is a good second choice if a Mark VIII cooling fan can't be sourced. Good to see you already have the large case 3G 130+ amp alternator, should provide more than enough amperage for any electric fan that will physically fit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think I can put the stock fan back on after removing the dual fan setup. I am concerned about 1 to 1 pulley situation. I think they sell an electric pump to solve that issue but I will start with the old steel fan, not the flex fan. and see what happens.

The thermostat I am using is a high flow design.

Timing is 9 degrees BTC with vacuum advance off and total timing of 34. It only pings when it gets really hot.

I can source a big lincoln mark VIII fan, I actually had one at one point but feel that electric fans do not work well with these trucks. Never had good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I am going to start with the steel fan and see what happens. I spoke to CVF and they said the water pump pulley is 5.2 and the crank pulley is 5.7 so it is not 1:1. An electric water pump would not work either because I have the water bypass into my intake and I want to heat the truck in the winter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I think I have the same radiator/ fan setup. It sucks. Added two pusher fans in front but it now basically blocks all natural air flow. Someone told be to try to find a larger motor that has the same size housing, but I don't know how feasible that is. May need to find an old copper radiator and a good mechanical fan and a quality shroud.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Had to get a 1 1/2 spacer for the fan to fit properly. Once it comes in I will test without the shroud. I will get one as soon as I can figure out the correct design.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,378 Posts
I am going to start with the steel fan and see what happens. I spoke to CVF and they said the water pump pulley is 5.2 and the crank pulley is 5.7 so it is not 1:1. An electric water pump would not work either because I have the water bypass into my intake and I want to heat the truck in the winter.

Yeah 1.09 to 1 to be precise.
By OD the OEM pulley is roughly 8" and wp pulley is 6.125" for a 1.306 to1 OD.

Check the T stat housing with an infrared Thermometer to be sure what your temps are.

Are you running crossover heat through the intake?







Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Log into Facebook
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
815 Posts
Those fans look small and the shroud looks very restrictive to me.

I have an aluminum rad and derale 4000 cfm dual fans on a shroud I built , no heat issues on a A block 598.

Yours just looks restrictive to me, low speed the fans look too small.

Really, moving at speed you shouldn't need a fan at all, mother nature will shove more air into the rad than any fan could.

My inner fenders are cut out for fender well headers and this might help evacuate air too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am running the crossover to the intake, and I agree it is not much more than 1:1 but I do feel switching out the fan will help big time. I will take photos from the top down once I get the adapter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,378 Posts
I am running the crossover to the intake, and I agree it is not much more than 1:1 but I do feel switching out the fan will help big time. I will take photos from the top down once I get the adapter.

An aluminum intake with cross over heat aggravates an engine already on the line for octane tolerance. For every 10f increase in intake charge temp you sacrifice 1% torque.






Scotty J. "AKA" The "Mad Porter"
"EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Ported BBF iron head specialist & Aluminum heads from all sources.
Custom ground cams
See our products in the Vendor for sale section
Customized crate engines
ParklandAutoMachine.com
R-H-P.biz
"Parkland Performance Auto Machine" Formerly RHP
(253)-988-6648
Log into Facebook
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Really, moving at speed you shouldn't need a fan at all, mother nature will shove more air into the rad than any fan could.
I think it depends on the environment, and the specific vehicle.
Both my 2014 and 1972 F250s reach peak coolant temps only at highway speeds, climbing a grade, in 100*+ temps, A/C running. Why? Because engine is under heavy load for extended periods. You can watch coolant temps drop when fan clutch reaches it's' setpoint and engages. The coolant temp is then regulated by fan.
More evident when towing a heavy trailer, when throttle has been held to floor for long periods of time (many miles at WOT). Coolant temp is lower at top of grade than at the bottom, because fan has increased airflow through radiator.

I think although there is high velocity air at highway speeds, and high pressure zone at grill, that doesn't mean the air enters the radiator. Especially if fan on other side is turning at fixed speed and possible creating restriction.

My mustang is opposite, max temps in stop and go traffic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
The pulleys look good,I don’t blame you for doing all you can to make it work.

I ran a T-bird fan for a while. Cooled fair at low speeds but highway speeds seemed to block natural air flow.
Switched to a 17.5” - 4 blade. Holding my hand in front of radiator at 1500-2000 rpms it felt like it moved as much if not more air than the T-bird fan on high.

That engine compartment,,,,whole truck looks good.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top