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Just goofing off today, so I compiled some of the flow numbers off this forum:

SCJ 429/460 heads as cast:

100 - 73/60 82%
200 - 155/106 68%
300 - 222/141 63%
400 - 275/177 64%
500 - 314/191 60%
600 - 317/203 64%
700 - 316/211 66%
800 - 321/213 66%

SCJ's as cast with hand blending:

100 - 81/59 72%
200 - 155/104 67%
300 - 250/146 58%
400 - 313/175 55%
500 - 359/195 54%
600 - 345/206 59%
700 - 340/213 62%
800 - 331/217 65%

SCJ's as cast with hand blending and seat & short turn work both ports (ScottJ work):

100 - 95/59 62%
200 - 166/104 62%
300 - 256/153 59%
400 - 330/182 55%
500 - 380/200 52%
600 - 370/213 57%
700 - 380/238 62%
800 - 370/250 67%

SCJ's as cast with hand blending and seat & short turn work on exhaust ports only:

100 - 81/59 72%
200 - 155/104 67%
300 - 250/153 61%
400 - 313/182 58%
500 - 359/200 55%
600 - 345/213 61%
700 - 340/238 70%
800 - 331/250 75%


It's interesting that the Team 385's engine had 600 hp and 577 tq with a single pattern cam and the intake and exhaust port had a 52%- 67% flow ratio. Maybe 70%-75% ratio is not really required. If you just had the heads hand blended in the intake ports, the exhaust with the seat and short turn work, and single pattern cam about 240 at .050, 500-550 hp shouldn't be a problem at all.


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mcs
(Login mcsteiny)
66.81.33.6 Interesting and useful Dave...thanks...
No score for this post October 29 2003, 11:51 PM

Possible you could find this information on the new Edel Victor SCJ heads?

Mike

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David O'Hagin
(Login DJOHAGIN)
64.165.209.193 New TFS A460 flow numbers
No score for this post November 28 2003, 1:24 PM

Valves 2.3 Int. 1.88 Ex.
91 cc chambers


New TFS A460 out of the box

200 - 157/112 71%
300 - 233/157 67%
400 - 293/190 64%
500 - 345/218 63%
600 - 380/240 63%
700 - 390/255 65%
800 - 392/262 66%

New TFS A460 port work done (Charlie Evans' work)

200 - 157/128 81%
300 - 236/164 69%
400 - 311/209 67%
500 - 375/265 70%
600 - 419/297 70%
700 - 440/318 72%
800 - 460/331 71%

Just a question, the SCJ heads flow 340/238 at .700 lift, and the TFS probably flow the same at .450 lift (both with port work). Would both engines make the about the same power if the duration was the same, but the peak lift on the SCJ head was .700 and the peak on the TFS was .450 (ramps modified on each cam for the lift)?

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lem evans
(no login)
12.148.40.83 Intake is a 2.350" on the tfs "A" n/m
No score for this post November 28 2003, 2:22 PM

tyu

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lem evans
(no login)
12.148.40.83 scj
No score for this post November 28 2003, 2:27 PM

380 cfm @ .500" wow! It isn't always the big # but where!

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David O'Hagin
(Login DJOHAGIN)
64.163.138.13 Pure stock D0OE-R flow numbers
No score for this post December 1 2003, 8:53 PM

Pure stock D0OE-R (Courtesy of PullinBret)
Valves 2.250 Int. 1.750 Ex.

100 - 72/55 76%
200 - 137/109 79%
300 - 200/134 67%
400 - 266/149 56%
500 - 289/157 54%
600 - 317/161 50%
700 - 337/163 48%
800 - 350/???


This message has been edited by DJOHAGIN from IP address 64.163.138.13 on Dec 1, 2003 8:56 PM




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DaveMcLain
(Login DaveMcLain)
216.229.73.98 Cam Timing and cylinder heads
No score for this post December 1 2003, 10:30 PM

This is true, the Team 385 engine did run with a single pattern cam. If you look at the best lash setting it was actually a VERY slight dual pattern cam in the engine. BUT, it was dual pattern in the other direction, larger intake side than exhaust. We ran it cranked down slightly more on the intake side, it liked it best that way.

I don't think you can always look at flow numbers and say, less flow relative to displacement, more cam timing. More flow, less cam timing because there are other factors that are less obvious. For instance, the Ford port, even the new SCJ exhaust port which is better than the old stuff. Is still shaped poorly and has a very low exit. This makes the port more apt to have reversion than a more ideal port design. This might make it more sensitive timing wise at and around overlap when the pressures are low in the cylinder and the intake tract is open.

In these instances, it may be wise to have the exhaust valve more closed than it would be if it had more timing than the intake valve. Remember, for some reason this engine liked having the cam advanced 4 degrees, while that's not unusual it does mean that while the profiles on intake and exhaust were identical timing wise, they didn't have identical timing events.

Good stuff.


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lem evans
(no login)
68.168.52.176 Dave do you think
No score for this post December 1 2003, 10:58 PM

that the engine was also asking for a little bigger intake lobe ?

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Dave McLain
(no login)
216.229.73.172 Bigger lobe
No score for this post December 1 2003, 11:17 PM

It would have been interesting to try a slightly larger lobe, yes. Something about 2 degrees larger at .050 would have probably been ok. It would probably run the same, just it would have .032 lash instead of .026! It would have been fun to play with the lobe sep and overall cam advance too when adding more timing. We ran with a 110 lobe sep, but with more cam timing I bet we would have needed to go to 112 sep with 6 instead of 4 degrees of advance, who knows!


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lem evans
(no login)
68.168.52.176 I don't know for sure..
No score for this post December 1 2003, 11:38 PM

but I bet you'r right!!

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Gary H.
(no login)
68.98.61.100 flow #s and valve size...
No score for this post December 2 2003, 2:00 PM

so, has anyone tried going to a 2.25 intake over the 2.20 for a stroker? is it worth doing? or a bigger exhaust valve to help flow?

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ScottJ.s
(Login Scott429)
131.191.48.126 Kaase said that using the bigger intake is worth about 10 HP... n/m
No score for this post December 2 2003, 2:04 PM

n/m

Scott J. / RHP
"If ya got flow roast'em"
http://reincarnation-automotive.com



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Gary H.
(no login)
68.98.61.100 ok...
No score for this post December 3 2003, 3:44 PM

not really worth it then..

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David O'Hagin
(Login DJOHAGIN)
64.165.208.23 Blue Thunder flow numbers
No score for this post January 23 2004, 12:25 AM

Blue Thunder heads with chevy exhaust port
Numbers are courtesy of Charlie Evans

Out of the box - Unported - with a valve job

100 - 67/60 89%
200 - 129/114 88%
300 - 188/148 78%
400 - 251/176 70%
500 - 301/194 64%
600 - 322/207 64%
700 - 331/215 64%
750 - 335/219 65%

"Super" Bowl Work/Blending

100 - 71/61 85%
200 - 150/118 78%
300 - 209/158 75%
400 - 273/188 68%
500 - 329/213 64%
600 - 340/237 69%
700 - 343/258 75%
750 - 346/266 76%

Fully Ported Street/Strip

100 - 72/67 93%
200 - 148/122 82%
300 - 213/163 76%
400 - 277/191 68%
500 - 331/215 64%
600 - 351/241 68%
700 - 356/265 74%
750 - 359/276 76%

Fully Race Ported

100 - 73/67 91%
200 - 152/122 80%
300 - 216/163 75%
400 - 281/198 70%
500 - 335/227 67%
600 - 363/251 69%
700 - 377/271 71%
750 - 380/280 73%

Dyno results from the heads:

Pump gas 572 CID 4.605 bore x 4.3 stroke
flat tappet cam 270/278-110 .692 lift
compression 10.25 dished JE pistons

single plane Victor 4 barrel with 1150 cfm Dominator:
743 Hp @ 6100 rpm and 718 lbs.ft. @ 4900 rpm

tunnel ram with 2 1050 cfm Dominators:
779 Hp @ 6300 rpm and 746 lbs.ft. @ 4900 rpm

Charlie, BTW that was some good stuff you posted.


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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
152.163.252.232 Thank You David
No score for this post January 23 2004, 1:06 AM

The engine is Jet Boat Bob's baby. Bob, Lem and I, all had a hand in building it. We're pleased and we think it turned out well. It's a river ride, but I'm betting Bob can put it in the 10 second class.

Around here I'm the chief intake manifold and head porter, so Bob has to keep me happy. Feed me steaks, free beer and etc. We're having fun and life is good!

Charlie

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kevin
(Login kkachel)
151.197.189.114 Dave, my BT flow numbers
No score for this post March 23 2005, 7:13 PM

these aluminum BT heads have the chevy exhausts and 1.88" valves. intake ports were very slightly cleaned up, not enlarged, and had some very slight bowl work done. The exhaust ports were not enlarged, but material around the guide was removed and some bowl work was done. The valves are undercut Ferreas. All porting was done by me, and if i remember correctly, at the time I was drinking at a christmas party at the shop i used to work at. This was the first time i ever did any porting.

.100 79.6 61 76.63316583
.200 148.7 116.3 78.21116342
.300 214.7 154.1 71.77456917
.400 272.9 186.2 68.23012092
.500 322.9 211.9 65.62403221
.600 346.6 238.3 68.75360646
.700 355.8 265.7 74.67678471
.800 362.3 285.8 78.88490201
.850 366.1 285.8 78.06610216

The numbers look very similar to yours.


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David O'Hagin
(no login)
63.207.12.200 C-Head flow numbers
No score for this post February 22 2004, 11:29 PM

Courtesy of Charlie Evans

C-heads out of the box 45 * seats
2.45 intake and 1.9 exhaust valve
4.625 cylinder sleeve size
no exhaust test tube

200 - 159/111 69%
300 - 227/150 66%
400 - 285/183 64%
500 - 327/201 61%
600 - 351/214 60%
700 - 367/221 60%
750 - 380/224 58%
800 - 380/225 59%

Bowl blend

200 - 154/111 72%
300 - 230/166 72%
400 - 306/217 70%
500 - 380/260 68%
600 - 425/270 63%
700 - 427/293 68%
750 - 418/299 71%
800 - 413/302 73%

Hand ported with 45* seats

200 - 158/125 79%
300 - 238/164 68%
400 - 316/212 67%
500 - 384/270 70%
600 - 431/295 68%
700 - 464/315 67%
750 - 476/320 67%
800 - 480/325 67%

CNC program with 45* seats

200 - 160/130 81%
300 - 245/170 69%
400 - 327/210 64%
500 - 400/280 70%
600 - 450/315 70%
700 - 478/340 71%
750 - 490/347 70%
800 - 500/355 71%


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David O'Hagin
(no login)
63.207.12.200 Edelbrock RPM flow numbers
No score for this post February 22 2004, 11:45 PM

Courtesy of ScottJ

Edelbrock RPM out of the box

CJ port
100 - 82/64 78%
200 - 156/110 70%
300 - 225/155 68%
400 - 279/182 65%
500 - 323/200 61%
600 - 341/214 62%
700 - 347/212 61%
800 - 350/212 60%

Stage 2 Intake and exhaust port

100 - 79/64 81%
200 - 153/114 74%
300 - 225/161 71%
400 - 278/192 69%
500 - 324/215 66%
600 - 353/240 67%
700 - 365/248 67%
800 - 380/250 65%


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David O'Hagin
(no login)
63.207.12.200 TFS street head flow numbers
No score for this post February 22 2004, 11:46 PM

Courtesy of Probolt64

TFS street heads out of the box
2.2 intake and 1.76 exhaust valve

100 - 72/60 83%
200 - 152/110 72%
300 - 219/145 66%
400 - 273/180 65%
500 - 312/204 65%
600 - 334/223 66%
700 - 334/223 66%


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Steve Vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.51.67 horsepower numbers / flow numbers
No score for this post March 22 2005, 7:33 PM

Hey guys, just wondering what everyone elses oppinion is about horsepower numbers divided by flow numbers. Givin there is a lot of variable to look at but for instance, most of the engine I have built on a budget with shelf parts ( stack cam core, 1/16 ring pack, stainless valves with stud rockers, small 3/8 pushrods ect. ect.) have got between 2.1 to 2.14 horsepower per cfm. Now, a tricked out engine with good light parts, small rings, big cam core, and so one, have got 2.23. examples,

545 BBF old cobra jet heads 385 cfm-----810hp budget
598 BBC protopline heads 440cfm------942hp simi budget
515 BBC protopline heads 440cfm------985hp trick deal

anyways, im workin on a 572 ford with A460 heads just wondering what to expect.

572
4.565x4.375
BME custom pistons and rods. .043 .043 3mm
15:1
A460 heads ported with 2.350" 1.900"
valves
custom cam (stock 54mm core) 285* 297* @.050" .480" intake lobe .440" exaust with 1.8 jesel rockers
.840" after lash intake
.775" exaust after lash
manley nex-tek 1.625 micro polished springs
7/16 pushrods
trick flow cast manifold
1150 brazwell alcohol dominator
dry sump oiling system.

im not sure what the heads flow on this one but i am having them flowed. but they will be flowed on a small bore so im not sure how good the numbers will be.
i would like to think the heads flow 440 and so i would like to see 980's out of this one. what do you guys think??

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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
205.188.116.134 Well If You Made 985 Hp Out Of A 515 CID Chevy
No score for this post March 23 2005, 1:05 AM

then there's no reason at all not to think you'll make 980 Hp out of a 572 CID Ford with a dry sump. In fact it should be over 1000 Hp. The best part of the combo that you listed is the dry sump system. The remaining varible is how good your A-460 heads are. Don't pay too much attention to the peak flow numbers. More importantly pay attention to the flow curve and how good are the mid-lift numbers.

Hope this helps,
Charlie

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steve vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.51.67 Re: Well If You Made 985 Hp Out Of A 515 CID Chevy
No score for this post March 23 2005, 6:03 PM

charlie i had the heads flowed today....

just one port. it could be better or worse than others. all measure the same as far as cross sectional area goes.
they were flowed on a sf600 on a 4.250 bore.(thats as big as he had)

200 183
300 252
400 324
500 362
600 386
700 410
800 422
900 425

with a 45* seat. this is down from what i wanted but how much do you think the small bore is hurting them?

This message has been edited by builttorace from IP address 69.134.51.67 on Mar 23, 2005 6:03 PM




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steve vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.51.67 Re: Well If You Made 985 Hp Out Of A 515 CID Chevy
No score for this post March 23 2005, 9:33 PM

You say to pay more attention to mid lift than high lift.
Just wondering what you have saw there to come up with that conclusion. I have always looked at having as good of mid lift numbers as possible but not by sacrificing high lift numbers. My thoughts behind it is that you pass by your mid lift points so fast opening and closing(worse with a more aggressive cam)but your high lift points have a little bit of "dwell time" when the valve slows down to change directions. I see that the piston speed would probably be the fastest during the mid lift points, but it would only be on the opening side. Just some questions I have had for a while. I work in a NASCAR NEXTEL cup engine room and everyone has a different opinion. haha. just wondering your thoughts. thanks for all the ideas.

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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130 Well, , , , , ,
No score for this post March 23 2005, 9:42 PM

Not much below .500" lift and above that I'd say 10 to 13 cfm. So your 425 cfm might well be 438 cfm.

It amazes me the number of speed shops and etc. that have flow benches, but yet don't have the equipment to properly flow heads. A 4.250" bore is as big as he's got, but think of all the big Fords, Chevys, Mopars & Buicks out there with bores bigger than 4.25.

Charlie

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Bret
(Login PullinBret)
208.31.189.214 Re: Well, , , , , ,
No score for this post March 23 2005, 9:55 PM

Charlie, old habits are hard to break huh? You just had to throw Buick in there! LOL!

If it's not constructive...it's probably destructive!
"PULLIN FOR CHRIST" Bret

"PFC Engines" Shop exterior is finished!



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steve vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.51.67 Re: Well, , , , , ,
No score for this post March 23 2005, 9:56 PM

It amazes me also. I have always used a flow bench and tried to make it as close to running conditions as possible. Since I came to work out here in Charlotte, I have yet to see many shops here that even USE a flow bench. They have the local "guru" do the heads and they bolt them on. But, they make power also. They seem to say that if the shape is right, the flow is there. ??? I have seen good port shapes with junk valve jobs though. Flow bench will find them cats in a hurry!

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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130 You Are So Right About Good Port Shapes & Junk Valve Jobs!
No score for this post March 23 2005, 10:15 PM

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again. After every valve job the heads should be re-flow tested.

Who do they consider the "local guru" right now?

Charlie

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steve vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.51.67 Re: You Are So Right About Good Port Shapes & Junk Valve Jobs!
No score for this post March 23 2005, 10:18 PM

Some guy from Penski. Not sure on the name. Like I said though, they do make some power. I have seen some of his stuff have the bottom cut cut out just on the short turn side. Its cut out all the way to the seat. Never seen that before, but all the heads have it.

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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130 Those In The Know
No score for this post March 23 2005, 10:21 PM

call that an "asymmetrical valve job". Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

So are you working for a Mopar team?

Charlie

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steve vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.51.67 Re: Those In The Know
No score for this post March 23 2005, 10:24 PM

I see.
No, im on the Gibbs Chevy team in the cam/valve train room.

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Charlie Evans
(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130 Did You
No score for this post March 23 2005, 10:27 PM

know Jason Line before he moved to Greg Anderson's Pro Stock team? Also, don't you all use DTS dynos? How many do you have?

Charlie

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steve vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.51.67 Re: Did You
No score for this post March 23 2005, 10:31 PM

No, i have been there for only a year. I lived ( and still work) with a guy that lived with him when he worked there. Went out and had a couple with them once. Not sure on the dyno's if you know what I mean. Past my bedtime fella's. Ill talk at you all tomorrow. Have some new flow numbers then too. Worked on the A heads some more. haha

This message has been edited by builttorace from IP address 69.134.51.67 on Mar 23, 2005 10:32 PM




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Steve Vance
(Login builttorace)
69.134.55.206 572
No score for this post January 15 2006, 12:59 AM

Well, we hung the 572 again and this time put it on gas ( C 25 ) instead of alcohol. I went back through the heads and picked them up to about 460 cfm. Motor made 1028hp @ 7300 and all was well untill the mains came out of it! Not sure what went on there but ill let you know this week when I get started putting it back together.
 
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