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starter noise

2175 Views 7 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  White Lightning
i have a hughes flexplate with hughes converter and the crank is a scat crank have part num if need it...any ways the starter is not a high dollar one but it is a small high torque and my prob is with the 1/8 midplate the starter teeth were hitting when the starter was just sitting there so i had a buddie make shims with a laser ..these shims are now totaling 3/16 of an inch and the starter doesnt hit now but when u crank it wow is sounds bad.....any ideas whats wrong ...thanks Jordan
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OK Jordan, it all depends on how you set up your midplate.....First it sounds like you didn't shim the flexplate back from the crank like it needs to be, bad on two counts, 1: it pulls the converter out of the front pump (VERY bad!), 2: it leaves the flexplate in a forward configuration so it won't clear the starter drive (that's why you shimed the starter forward). It sounds like you put the midplate behind the stock block proctector/starter locator plate, hence the need for the starter shim. Most aftermarket midplates are cut out around the starter mounting location and don't include thier thickness in the starter mounting equation, this works out very well if you use the (usually) supplied crank shim and place the midplate in front of the stock seperator plate as you MUST do, the converter MUST NOT be pulled out of the front pump any more than it's designed to be! So, this is the configuration you should have (starting from the front) block, midplate, stock seperator plate, bellhousing (with the same thickness shim as your midplate on the crankshaft between the crank flange and the flexplate). Now, I build all of my own midplates and I dont use the stock seperator plates, I locate the starter nose right in my plates. This takes the stock plates' thickness (and the need to shim the flexplate back the thickness of it) out of the crank shim equation.
So, to review.....Midplates are a good thing.
When you use a midplate you MUST move the converter back so it locates in the front pump as it was designed to do. (Either longer mounting bosses on the converter or a shim between the crank flange and the flexplate).
Just remember: as you move the bellhousing rearward the starter and the flexplate must follow it the same distance for proper front pump engagement.
So, to fix what you already have (from the sound of your post) put the midplate in front of the stock locator plate and the supplied shim between the crank flange and flexplate, do away with the started shim and you should be OK. Of course, any variations on this set-up and you'll have to do a little math to figure out what thicknesses you need where. Hope this helps. BTW, VERY nice truck!
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thanks for the input....hughes said this flexplate doesnt need to be shimed it is a sfi aproved and has the stock configurations of the oem flexplate......the converter was also custom made by them to allow for the 1/4 plate i ahve in there....does that mean i still have to shim the flexplate??? also the converter goes in the pump all the way leaving bout 1/16 -1/8 from bottoming out.....i did try to use my stock starter and it was fine just no power i should have told u that b 4 sorry ....that you for ur help....Jordan
Ok Jordan, thanks for the extra info. In the configuration that you have (with the converter with the long ears, which incidently is the way I like doing it because the more crank shim you use the more chance you have at shearing off the crank bolts and the flexplate loosing its register on the center hole support flange.....good for the fact of power transmition through the bellhousing area) the flexplate location hasn't moved fore or aft in relation with the block, therefore, if you use the stock seperator plate in FRONT of the midplate, it should locate the the starter in the correct location (make sure that the converter center hub still reaches and correctly registers in the pilot hole in the crank) negating the need for a starter shim. If you put the seperator plate on the BACK side of the midplate then you'll need a shim. If you machine a shim remember that it not only needs to be the correct thickness to match the midplate but it HAS to accurately locate on the machined ring on the starter snout. I've had customers leave the stock seperator plate out and wonder why thier starter makes noise and only lasts a week before the drive goes south. Hope this helps.
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i pulled the starter off and threr was a small amount of metal shavings in the nose of the starter i mean you could just wipe them out with ur finger not a big pile......i tried a brnad new starter at the last race and it did the same thing...was thinking maybe the teeth were bottoming out .....the in and out spacing is fine i am talking bout the left right spacing .......slop out a hole in the starter and twist it away???? i.m thinking that if the teeth were not meshing right there would be no teeth left with 15.1 comp ya know ..thanks jordan
alright i painted the bendix and the flywheel is about half way into the starter..so i think thats my prob...gonna have to slide the starter over...:S
Over the yrs me and my buddies have ran into problems with the pmgr starter./ Anytime we needed to get deeper into flywheel we just pu a 12 tooth drive in one and gained a bunch of depth and starter always meshed great and turned easier, You can slot the holes and grind the plate , but it will most likely with that compression move around. The drives cost about $15 bucks from a auto electric store. Just a thought.
Proper gear lash on a starter drive (acording to Bendix) is when the bendix is engaged with the ring gear and you have about .015" clearance (about the thickness of a paper clip) between the gear and the ring gear teeth and there is at least full engagement of the bendix teeth (past the chamfered edge of the tooth) anything more than that is just bonus until the drive won't clear while it's disengaged. Hope that helps.
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