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oils

I have spent several hours on line (I only have dialup) trying to find the differences in the new CJ4 oils.
Shell was having some problems with their website + I couldn't access the only page I could find which gave the oil specifics.
I'll throw this out there for ya'll with DSL. Over the years all diesel oils have changed. It started with CC grade, then CD, CE, CF, CF4, CG4, CH4, CI4, CJ4. The latter is the most radical to be changed. It was designed specifically for the new particulate filter equipped motors (read catalityic converter)
From what I have read in the past, this new oil is very different from the old oil in its formulation. It is designed for higher temps, higher soot levels etc.
I've got a note to a tech guru who has done a write up on this very topic. I'm waiting for his response.
 

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One of the problems is the low amount of zink in the oil but the bigger problem is the amount of detergents in the oil.
It doesn't matter how much zink is in the oil if the oil contains a high amount of detergent.
What happens is the detergent wash's the zink off the metal parts of the engine making the zink ineffective.
I use Driven brand of oil for break in simply because it has the highest amount of zink and the lowest detergent.
If I could get some straight non detergent that is what I would use.
The diesel oils I used to use are no longer good enough for break in because they have reduced the amount of zink in the oils making them no better then the newer auto oils.
Greg
 

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Not so sure about the non-detergent oils. I had a 1982 Mercury Grand Marquis with 302, bought new. I changed the filter and oil every 4K miles with a big name 10w-30 oil. At about 90K miles the engine started ticking loudly, a lifter tick.

Turned out that a pushrod had gone through a rocker arm. Took the intake manifold off and the whole inside of the engine looked as if a big slab of fat had exploded in a 450* oven and was baked on -everything-. The oil hole through the pushrod was stopped up with baked on crud and stopped the oil flow.

So after everything was cleaned up and put back together, I have only used Castrol, Rotella, or Motorcraft semi-synthetic and no more crud problems.

This is not a full court press to use one of those oils, I am just saying that I would not pull the trigger too soon on non-detergent oils.
 

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The non detergent oil would only be used for cam break in and not for everyday driving.
In the 60's and 70's when you would pull down an engine for overhaul you would find caked oil on every part. I have had to use a power hammer to knock the hardened crud off the rockers and heads before. The only place where there wasn't a build up was a tiny hole where the rockers went up and down, so don't use that oil as a everyday oil.
Greg
 

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Slightly different here; we used flat blade screwdrivers and heavy gasket scrapers.

I didn't catch the break-in part of your reply. Most of the messages seemed to be about long term use, so I overlooked it.

I used to use Rotella-T and it worked well for a couple decades. Now I read that Shell has reformulated it with less zinc I ned to find something else for an old build flat tappet 400.

I -HATE- all these disclosures (don't drink the Drano, keep your grill lighter away from the gas pump, etc. Let the stupid thin the herd.) but I wish the oil companies would make it more public when they change formulations but keep the same names and labels.
 

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I wore out a bunch of scrapers and brush's on that old sludge. I really hated to clean in the valley of the block. Once I tried a wire brush on my drill but that didn't work out to good. I had small pieces of oil and sludge all over me and the shop.
The thing about the new oil is the detergent in it. Even if you add ZDDP to the oil the detergent wash's it away.
All a guy can do is break in the cam and then hope for the best.
I add the ZDDP to every oil change but I think it is a loosing battle. I used to use DELO but our all knowing goverment has made it illigle for the oil companys to make a good oil anymore. They have all been forced to change their formula's.
Greg
 

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I wore out a bunch of scrapers and brush's on that old sludge. I really hated to clean in the valley of the block. Once I tried a wire brush on my drill but that didn't work out to good. I had small pieces of oil and sludge all over me and the shop.
The thing about the new oil is the detergent in it. Even if you add ZDDP to the oil the detergent wash's it away.
All a guy can do is break in the cam and then hope for the best.
I add the ZDDP to every oil change but I think it is a loosing battle. I used to use DELO but our all knowing goverment has made it illigle for the oil companys to make a good oil anymore. They have all been forced to change their formula's.
Greg

When you add a ZDDP supplement to modern shelf oils the detergent and zinc are competing for the same real estate.
When you use a flat tappet cam specific oil with adequate zinc and phosphate that play well together you avoid the problem you mention. There are different ZZDP formulations depending on end use.

We sell cams with notched lifters and have very few failures when using the proper oils for both break in and longer term.
Add a zinc supplement to any of those oils and we've had cam failures. More is not better.

Valvoline race oil is shelf available at most parts stores and works just fine after break in.

We use Gibbs Driven in both BR HR and full synthetic. Never an issue even with open spring pressures of 350+ and or dyno issues. A good low detergent fast burn zinc break in oil is worth its weight imo...

Note. I'm not suggesting anyone else break in a cam with high open spring pressures. lol



SJ
used 2b RHP


.
 

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I have been using the Driven oil for the last few years.
It doesn't do much good to add ZDDP to oil as like you say it fights the calcium.
I used the valvoline racing oil for years but have gotten away from it.
Guess I will give it another look.
Greg
 

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1990 Ford Mustang LX 351M powered!! Project Cherry Bomb!!
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Oy!!! Long time lurker, first time poster!! I gots a few questions about this oil thing!! I've got a 90LX some buttmunch crammed a 351M into (yeh I'm in the middle of correcting that mess..) anyhoo.... It's been sitting for a long time and Instead of just firing it up, I figured it best to check it all out which meant pulling the valve covers and cleaning out the dried up crusty doo under there.. Like most of you have said.. nassassty!!! Dried up baked on crusty goo... So I cleaned it all up, scrubbed down the heads w kerosene, reassembled, dropped the oil. Now.. here's where my question comes in... In the old days, to help clean one out we used to do just what I did.. 1 qt of type F tranny fluid and 5 qts of 10-30 el-cheapo brand oil to flush it all out for the first time it runs, about 3-5 hours.. long enough to warm up or till the oil looks like it's got the cruds and then go agn to get it all out.. Now taking into consideration all the additives that aren't in the oil, and using the tranny fluid to get the crud out of it, is this safe to do these days or should I just run it as is till it kicks a rod out the oil pan? Or dump it full of kerosene and spin up the oil pump after taking out the dizzy??
 

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I would put some new clean oil in it and no ATF. The kerosene has cleaned it enough and now you have to worry about the crud in the engine plugging up your oil pump screen. This used to happen a lot in the ancient time when I started working on these cars. If the pan wasn't removed and cleaned and the oil pump and screen not changed then you are living on borrowed time.
Greg
 

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1990 Ford Mustang LX 351M powered!! Project Cherry Bomb!!
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Ooooooohhhh...... Dropping the pan's not an option... There's only about 1/2 to 1/4 of an inch of clearance between the oil pan and the steering rack.. If i yank it out to do that, imma sell that (exploitive) and make room for my big block!!
 

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In that case I would recommend that you drain the oil ,leave the pan dry, fill with 9 qt's of kerosens and let soak for a day or 2 then drain and refill with oil with a new filter..
More then likely it won't help much because you have loosened up the crud so it will likely plug up the pump screen anyway but it is worth a try.
Greg
 

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I do have the dizzy out so i can spin the oil pump both ways if necessary, btw holds 60psi with the tranny fluid and 10w30 in it now just using a drill to spin up the pump! S'good eh? Specially for a 40 year old engine with ?????? miles on it!
 

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Well 60 lb's is good but if the crud breaks loose then you will have 0 lb's.
With the dist. out i would do the previous steps but with the addition of when the kerosene is in the pan I would pre oil it for about 20 or 30 minutes and button it up.
I would also change the oil and filter after about every 100 miles untill you have the loosened crud out of the pan. Might take 4 or 5 changes.
I would start building your 429 or 460 now.
Greg
 
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