Timing gear issue

3562 Views 45 Replies 12 Participants Last post by pedal2themetal45, 9 mo ago

sunset racer

Discussion Starter · 11 mo ago

Hi All!
Been on the site a while as a longtime 460 owner. Got a puzzling problem so I thought I'd get some collective knowledge feedback! So, here's the background-I've been running a 77 Lincoln Continental 460 4bbl on clay track for about 13 years. (Yep!, it's fast till it overheats which is a problem for another day.) It backfired last year and wouldn't start after that. So, I started moving the distributor around since I had a feeling the timing gears jumped. In the pic of the Distr., the straight line is where #1 is on the cap. Where the rotor is, is now where TDC is for #1 cyl. In one pic you can see how much it's stretched. Now-here's the problem. If the timing gears jumped when it backfired why do they timing marks still line up to factory specs??? In the timing gear pic, #1 piston is it at TDC. The key is offset a little due to Ford putting about a 2 degree retard in timing for the EPA. It still sounds like crap when it runs so something is wrong. I can't figure out how the distributor got so out of sync with the engine? There sems to be no wiggle room between the Cam gear and the Distributor gear so I don't think that's the problem. If anyone has any idea about what is wrong, I'd appreciate some feedback. I've stopped the repairs on it till I figure out what happened.

Thanks!

Bob

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pedal2themetal45

· #2 · 11 mo ago

HI that's a lot of slop in the chain.. replacing it would put the distributor back inline.. there is tension on the chain when running .. the way you have it posistioned showing the marks lined up there is not tension on ether side..
rotate the motor in the direction of operation and when the crank gets to TDC I'd bet the cam gear is off.. Remember two rotations to bring it back to proper TDC.
Replace the timing gears and chain

sunset racer

Discussion Starter · #3 · 11 mo ago

Hi,
In that pic there is tension on the right side as you look at it and the motor spins clockwise.

Werecow

· #4 · 11 mo ago (Edited)

Never mind, stupid hit keyboard before brain engaged... Ok I'll toss it out... Are you sure the distributor gear didn't slip on the cam? And I'll agree with replacement of timing gears and chain w a double roller.. only other thing I can think of is possible the backfire came from the keyway on the reluctor in the distributor is worn out and is causing a misfire because it's just spinning freely?

ArnoldRC

· #5 · 11 mo ago

Have you still got a power valve in the carb? Replace it if you do. Power valves do not like backfires in my experience.

Reactions: 1

pedal2themetal45

· #6 · 11 mo ago

HI
I still say timing gear/chain.. I Just re-looked at your picture of the marks lined . if you look real close you well see that the cam gear is not its pointing to the right. With the chain slop your timing is way off.
Replace the timing set..
Double Roller for sure.. If its not a problem now it well be in a few races so since you are in there replace it..

Just looked again and that cam gear is one of those stock PLASTIC gears. looks like a lot of ware..

good luck take care be safe
tim

pedal2themetal45

· #7 · 11 mo ago

HI
🐻Bear🐻 with me .. be sure and get a straight up timing set.. looked again and the crank dot does not line up the the crank key.. So its most likely a stock 2* set up.. You'll also pick up some power..

good luck take care be safe
tim

The Mad Porter

· #8 · 11 mo ago

Simply order an OEM style double roller timing set for a 93 and up EFI 460 and get rid of the oil slinger.

Properly curve the distributor. 36* TT

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Reactions: 4

wickettoby1

· #9 · 11 mo ago

Have you ran a compression check? Is it possibly you whacked a valve with a piston when you’re timing issue occurred?

JimL

· #10 · 11 mo ago

Check for a sheared roll pin holding distributor drive gear to the shaft. 😉

...and replace the T/C... like Scotty said.

Reactions: 1

myfairlane528

· #11 · 11 mo ago

Get that dam plastic gear off there...

Reactions: 2

sunset racer

Discussion Starter · #12 · 11 mo ago

Hi, thanks for the reply. The reluctor is pretty new. Backfire happened when it got flooded during a re-start. There is very little free play in the distributor, vertical or sideways. Yes, new double roller and gears from Rock Auto going to be ordered.
Question...is the cam sprocket bolt righty tighty-lefty loosey as normal or is opposite because the sprocket spins clockwise?
Thanks

sunset racer

Discussion Starter · #13 · 11 mo ago

Hi, thanks for the reply. New chain and gears from Rock auto soon.
When you say 'oil slinger' are you referring to the round plate attached to the cam sprocket? Cause that's my fuel pump eccentric.

sunset racer

Discussion Starter · #14 · 11 mo ago

Hi, thanks for the reply. No compression test. I don't think the timing has changed enough to ding a piston, at best it's about 15 degrees off.
Thanks

sunset racer

Discussion Starter · #15 · 11 mo ago

Hi, thanks for the reply. roll pin is intact and there is very little play between can gear and distributor gear. Not a lot of vertical shaft play either. New double roller Cloyes T/C on order from Rock auto.
Thanks

Reactions: 2

pedal2themetal45

· #16 · 11 mo ago

HI oil slinger is the thin washer in front of the crank gear..
as per the back fire.. if you still have the Holley carb.. they don't like back fires.. it tends to blow out the power valve.. and can cause flooding. watch down the carb when you shut it off for a minute .. watch for smoke .. smoke would be raw fuel running into the carb from a blown power valve. since this is a race application they can be removed and a block off bolt added in its place.. from a kit.

good luck take care be safe
tim

pedal2themetal45

· #17 · 11 mo ago

HI Here is a link to power valve and a block off kit. not sure if it fits your application just for reference.

www.summitracing.com

Holley 125-45 Holley Replacement Power Valves | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Holley Replacement Power Valves with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Carburetor Power Valves at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

www.summitracing.com

Mr. Gasket 1510 Mr. Gasket Power Valve Plugs | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Mr. Gasket Power Valve Plugs with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Carburetor Power Valve Block-Off Plugs at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

good luck take care be safe
tim

sunset racer

Discussion Starter · #18 · 11 mo ago

Hi, why do I want to get rid of the oil slinger? Sounds like it has a purpose...lol...
Thanks,
Bob

pedal2themetal45

· #19 · 11 mo ago

HI yea I don't know . it keeps most of the oil away from the crank seal I think..

good luck take care be safe
tim

slowride

· #20 · 11 mo ago

The keyway on the crank isn't ground retarded, the keyway in the bottom sprocket is broached retarded. It really doesn't matter as you're damn lucky that nylon tooth OE set didn't shed teeth (yet). When you replace it with an early timing set you'll notice the dot on the tooth relative to the keyway is different (eliminating the retard). If you use a piston stop on #1 to determine actual TDC I think you'll see you jumped a tooth (in addition to an extremely worn retarded timing set).

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