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Naah, he'd never make it... He's too much in the know... Wants to see America succeed and be on top again...:rolleyes:




Doug...:cool:
 

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About time a office-holder blew it back up the medias _ZZZ!
Hes only ten miles from me, have to keep a eye out for him. He rocks!

Al
 

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Hey a Dem that gets it! Need more of these folk to get pissed like the rest of us, not just us the same old BULL ****!
 

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I support the american worker but at some point we have to understand that the big 3 can't compete on cost. IF your job was not making enough of a profit they would have to cut back. I like the guys desire for good things for us americans but until we make concessions to make the BIG 3 come back they will have problems. Ford may be the only that will survive. The media is biased a good bit. You as the voter still need to look at the numbers. I don't want to see any go under, but until all involved make some changes it may not matter. You can be mad all you want. But when we have the Big 1 it wont matter. Unions had a point in the 1910s 20s and 30s. I think they are out of date. Remember this before you freak out, if I am company A and its cheaper per person to build it in Mexico or Canada than have a union American do it, what whould I do. Business is about the bottom line. Like it or leave it. Thats Capitalism. Unions need to be competitive verse non-union labor forces. You cannot deny that Toyota and Nissan are getting their cars built for cheaper.

This is a tough situation and I hope we don't lose Ford, Chebby or mopar.
 
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If we continue to run business they way we always have, we'll continue on the path of getting our asses kicked by the Japanese. Seems pretty simple to me. The good Mayor doesn't seem to understand that point.
 

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If we continue to run business they way we always have, we'll continue on the path of getting our asses kicked by the Japanese. Seems pretty simple to me. The good Mayor doesn't seem to understand that point.

amen brother.

I dislike the greed and such of corporate executives as much as anyone, but they should not harbor 100% of the blame.
 

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Welllll, The question that never seems to get asked is: If were all worried about the cost of the Union worker driving up the cost of the car ($2000.00), how much do the guys in management drive the cost up? Think about it their salaries, health care, retirement packages are much greater than the worker. I havent heard how much of the cost of the car is related to management but Ill bet its a lot more. AND THEY DONT TURN A SCREW. No one is asking them to make those kind of changes. As far as being competitive, we dont subsidize our companies to take out the competition. Other countries do and set taxes and tariffs to there benefit. We set it much differently. What we are calling free trade is nothing more than a way to drive down the wage of ANY worker. It is the Governments job to balance trade.
Oh yeah, how much IS Uncle Sam taking? The amount of taxes is ridiculous.
As to the Unions, they seriously do need to stop being so L A Z Y. Lets just say the Union worker stopped worrying about the maximum that he had to do under his contract and stated working like everyone else - 8 hours a day for 8 hours pay, how much more productive could he be?
 

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Welllll, The question that never seems to get asked is: If were all worried about the cost of the Union worker driving up the cost of the car ($2000.00), how much do the guys in management drive the cost up? Think about it their salaries, health care, retirement packages are much greater than the worker. I havent heard how much of the cost of the car is related to management but Ill bet its a lot more. AND THEY DONT TURN A SCREW. No one is asking them to make those kind of changes. As far as being competitive, we dont subsidize our companies to take out the competition. Other countries do and set taxes and tariffs to there benefit. We set it much differently. What we are calling free trade is nothing more than a way to drive down the wage of ANY worker. It is the Governments job to balance trade.
Oh yeah, how much IS Uncle Sam taking? The amount of taxes is ridiculous.
As to the Unions, they seriously do need to stop being so L A Z Y. Lets just say the Union worker stopped worrying about the maximum that he had to do under his contract and stated working like everyone else - 8 hours a day for 8 hours pay, how much more productive could he be?
Why do you come on here bashing union worker? Their are union workers on this board that bust their ***....pay their taxes & make this world go around. Most people who call someone LAZY are sitting on their *** when they do so. I'll say it again, you never here a union worker come on here & put other people down. Some people act like they never took a **** on company time...........Please!
PS......this comes from a non union worker!
 

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Chuck I think you should reread my post. Im for the union. Period. But as far as I can tell the UAW workers have gotten a little out of hand. Have you ever seen some of the hidden camera reports of workers in the bar during work hours? Just pointing out where the other side is getting their ammo from. Im not trying to say all union workers are lazy. And yes Ive been around unions before. And yes Ive seen the kind of thing of which I speak.
If you reread my post I was addressing the fact that no one wants to talk about management in all this. So we cool?
 

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Sorry!.......The lazy part caught my eye. Atleast you did add management into the mix of problems. Yes, we're cool!
 

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When I interned at the GM plan in Baltimore in the late '90s, the UAW workers got full health insurance. The front office guys had to pay a portion of their insurance premiums.
 

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I agree w/Galaxie in the case where I work. I have been a union member at a very large paper mill for 36.5 yrs. and the Maintenance workers are pothetic as far as work ethic.We will have machinery down that needs to be fixed for production to stay up. Well,Maint. clocks in at 7pm and goes to shops. Leaves the shop at 7:40 go to the job to look it over.
Go to get tools and chit chat for 20 min.
Work for 40 min.
go for 9 o'clock break at 8:40
go back to job at 9:30
cobble the job until 10:30 (while bitching about rumors of outside contractors taking their jobs)then get ready for lunch
11 till 12 lunch(talking about ways to get to work overtime later)
go to job from12pm until 12:40
break from then until 1:30
drag their feet on the work order hoping to do their backlog of work on overtime. (and they usually always workover)
Guy's none of that is exaggerated, it really is that way. BUT,the maintenance Boss's are as much to blame as they are for letting them get away w/it. But union or non, a Boss should not have too Babysit you to do your job:rolleyes: I can't say other plants and work places are this way, but sometimes it makes me wonder.:mad::confused:
 

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Chilly, honest question, do you have any idea how much managements pay/benefits drive up the cost of the car?(BTW, I dont like this whole idea that the worker is driving up the cost thing) I mean they've got it down to this $2000 figure for the UAW, just curious. I just crazy enough to think were headed to a place where wages are going to start to fall. And I wold think one of the ways to get it done would involve making a stink over how much a group of workers is making, and never mention the bigger picture. Watch one hand wile I do something else with the other, kinda thing.
And the idea that if we could just cut their portion the cost of the car would drop, I dont buy it. If Toyota Honda etc.... are paying their worker so much less in benefits than the UAW is getting, why do they cost more than a Ford or Chevy?
 

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Chilly, honest question, do you have any idea how much managements pay/benefits drive up the cost of the car?(BTW, I dont like this whole idea that the worker is driving up the cost thing) I mean they've got it down to this $2000 figure for the UAW, just curious. I just crazy enough to think were headed to a place where wages are going to start to fall. And I wold think one of the ways to get it done would involve making a stink over how much a group of workers is making, and never mention the bigger picture. Watch one hand wile I do something else with the other, kinda thing.
And the idea that if we could just cut their portion the cost of the car would drop, I dont buy it. If Toyota Honda etc.... are paying their worker so much less in benefits than the UAW is getting, why do they cost more than a Ford or Chevy?
...or why do products that once where made here and now are made overseas still cost the same or more? I thought foriegn labor was so cheap?

Unions raise the standard of living. I am a union electrician and have worked on sites with non union electricians and once at contract time one of them asked me what we got for a raise, he was curious cause he knew he would be getting the same or close to it. If these companies couldn't afford to pay the wages they wouldnt. But when competing with a worker that comes in from mexico and works for $5 an hour that makes it tough.

What needs to happen is for this nafta thing to end, thanks clinton, a so called labor supporter, and for the US to start producing its own goods again and close the f'n borders. But these crooked polititians always take the money and **** the guy in the middle.

There, thats my .02!
 

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I agree w/Galaxie in the case where I work. I have been a union member at a very large paper mill for 36.5 yrs. and the Maintenance workers are pothetic as far as work ethic.We will have machinery down that needs to be fixed for production to stay up. Well,Maint. clocks in at 7pm and goes to shops. Leaves the shop at 7:40 go to the job to look it over.
Go to get tools and chit chat for 20 min.
Work for 40 min.
go for 9 o'clock break at 8:40
go back to job at 9:30
cobble the job until 10:30 (while bitching about rumors of outside contractors taking their jobs)then get ready for lunch
11 till 12 lunch(talking about ways to get to work overtime later)
go to job from12pm until 12:40
break from then until 1:30
drag their feet on the work order hoping to do their backlog of work on overtime. (and they usually always workover)
Guy's none of that is exaggerated, it really is that way. BUT,the maintenance Boss's are as much to blame as they are for letting them get away w/it. But union or non, a Boss should not have too Babysit you to do your job:rolleyes: I can't say other plants and work places are this way, but sometimes it makes me wonder.:mad::confused:
I see the same thing with some guys and that pisses me off as well. Another thing that pisses me off is affirmative action, hiring some one because of there gender or color not because they can do the job, that really makes sense. How much does that drive the cost up?
I thing we need Union reform!
 

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same crap going on in the steel mills across the usa or at least the ones still running.upper management and plant managers make the big bucks,production an hourly workers must sacrifice take pay cuts.
 

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Chilly, honest question, do you have any idea how much managements pay/benefits drive up the cost of the car?(BTW, I dont like this whole idea that the worker is driving up the cost thing) I mean they've got it down to this $2000 figure for the UAW, just curious. I just crazy enough to think were headed to a place where wages are going to start to fall. And I wold think one of the ways to get it done would involve making a stink over how much a group of workers is making, and never mention the bigger picture. Watch one hand wile I do something else with the other, kinda thing.
And the idea that if we could just cut their portion the cost of the car would drop, I dont buy it. If Toyota Honda etc.... are paying their worker so much less in benefits than the UAW is getting, why do they cost more than a Ford or Chevy?
Can't say I've seen one. Probably hard to quantify since the management workforce is indirectly involved with production, while UAW is directly involved and a true count can be made of people/car. I have no doubts that the Big 3 are overstaffed on the management side as well.

It doesn't make it into the news, but make no mistake that management is feeling the GM cuts as well. The Director that was in charge of the project I work on for GM was given "early retirement" in October, he was a 30yr guy.
 

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Than mayor would get my vote in a heartbeat. The most sense I've ever heard from a politician. Working people make the world go round, if only we could organize to use our strengths. I'm a UNION man and feel very strongly about them. Of course there is abuse of the system, just as in any system. I'm sure they could save more by cutting the retirements and pensions of the execs over uaw men. Just as the justice system let's white collar crimes slip by with millions of peoples life long earned pensions with no jail time and millions spent fighting lawyers paid with stolen money. They are overlooking the big problems and pointing their fingers at the workers. People love to point out a group of workers not working, what they don't see is the planners that haven't done their job providing materials, organization, tools, etc. Yet they make more than the worker and when they don't do their job it's the workers fault for not getting the job done. Sorry for the long rant, just some of my experiences. If the big industry continues farming out jobs to slave labor countries they're not going to have anyone left to purchase their products.
 
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