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What would you do if you had $3000 do build a strong 460 for the street?
I have a Mustang GT 1989, and still haven't decided what parts to buy.
The primeary ones that I need are the swap headers for fox body, oil pan and motormounts.
I allready have the c-4 with bellhousing, stock torque converter, stock flexplate, rebuild kit for c-4, richmond 3.73 rear gears, 3 row radiator, lakewoof lift bars, 50/50 lakewood rear shocks, Stock D3VA heads milled to the most, ported intake&exhaust, stock valves.
Please help me out , where I live (in the caribbean) there aren't many ford freaks , only chevy.
I want to show them what a ford can do on the street.
( I used to race the Mustang with the 302 on the strip, but since I got married, I started selling all the high performance parts I had for the 302 like 12.8 pistons , nitrous, ballanced block, etc...)
but because once you start dragracing your wallet never stops racing either LOL, so then I decided to buy a 460 and produce more power and torque , just for the street.....in the meantime.....LOL
So please help me out.. as I was planning to order the parts you could see on this forum, at summit racing.(are they the cheapest raceparts sellers?
Please help me out on this one.
Jack
email: [email protected]
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514 MUSTANG
(no login)
12.13.226.14 HEADS
No score for this post April 18 2001, 12:38 PM
PLEASE TELL ME YOU CAN COME UP WITH A BETTER SET OF HEADS.
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.246 reply Heads
No score for this post April 19 2001, 12:54 PM
are the D3VA heads so bad?
Eventough I port the intake and exhaust, milled heads for a little extra bump in compression?
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Mike R.
(no login)
32.97.239.28 budget 460
No score for this post April 19 2001, 1:46 PM
Well here's my 2 cents worth.
If you are definately sticking with the D3VE heads I would probably get larger valves installed in the heads and make sure they are ported pretty well. I would get the TRW/Speed Pro L2443NF dome pistons to try and boost the compression and because they are some of the cheaper 460 pistons you will find. I would try to get ahold of some cj, truck, or marine rods if possible. Use a stock 460 crank, a Weind stealth intake, headers (not manifolds), and an 850 holley.
I would put alot of thought into using at least a 3000 stall convertor if not a 3500. I like TCI brand convertors. Without the convertor your cam choices could be very limited and that means your horsepower could also be very limited. With a 3000 or more stall (assuming you want to stay conservative on the cam) I would probably look at some of the Comp cams extreme energy grinds with about 230-240 duration at .050" and .550-600" lift.
I would try to spend my money on the basics, but if alot of machine work is involved it could add up prettty quickly.
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.252 about he stall converter
No score for this post April 19 2001, 6:08 PM
isn't a stall converter only required if you're going to the strip? At least , that is what i've heard.
I'm planning to use a stock torque converter for the
c-4 because I will not use the car for the strip.
Isn't a torque converter only used for the launch when holding up the brakes?( I'm not that experinced with automatics, never liked them, I only used to drive stick cars)
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Walt Barnes
(no login)
12.36.108.218 converters - BTDT-GTTS
No score for this post April 19 2001, 9:58 PM
Street? Strip? Yes and no.
At the strip (or at a stop light) if your stock converter prevents you from launching at a high enough RPM the engine will not be in the power band. If your hot cam makes you engine a dog below 3000 RPM and your converter stalls as 1200 RPM, you will have to CRAWL as the RPM builds up, UNLESS YOU ARE RUNNING ON STREET TIRES. If you are running street tires with a big block you'll have so much torque you'll be feathering the gas to get the best launch. If you just rip the launch your tires will go up in smoke and you won't go anywhere. Unless you have enough tire to hook don't bother with a high stall converter.
On the street why would you want a 500 HP car anyway? I guess to be able to nail it and have some fun, right? If smoking the tires is part of your idea of having fun, then a higher stall converter will help. (Lots of guys with small blocks stick in a high stall converter just so they CAN rally smoke the tires.) If you are used to clutches and manual transmissions, think of it this way. A stock 1500 RPM converter is like dumping the clutch at 1500 RPM. You can probably smoke 'em from a stop light, but it is soooo much more impressive to drop the clutch from 3000 RPM isn't it. And if you're rolling a little and floor it, the 1500 RPM converter is going to be just like idling along in first at 1500 RPM and flooring it. Expect it to bog and then slowly climb up into the power band. But if you're rolling along at 10 MPH and floor it with a 3000 RPM converter that engine will spin right up to 3000 RPM - or a little beyond - and then send all that torque back to the wheels. Whether the tires can hold it or smoke depends on your tires at that point.
If you really aren't going to the strip, don't make the converter your first expense. But the car will be a little more "fun" to drive with more stall if you really build an engine that is a dog down low. If you are not going to the strip, 3000 RPM may be a bit excessive, but 2200 RPM to 2600 RPM would probably suit you.
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.215 Thanks for you help! What about..
No score for this post April 20 2001, 7:18 AM
The cam I was planning to buy is the DEH275 from comp. cams , that say that it's the highest cam you can use with a stock converter.
And you are right , just planning to build the car and have fun!
I've just sold my MT ET Drag Sligs, so it would occur again going to the strip. At least not for now.
......until the dragbug bites again!
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Mike R.
(no login)
32.97.239.14 stall convertor
No score for this post April 20 2001, 2:48 PM
I like sticks also. They are more, but also cause more breakage.
My thinking on the stall convertor is this. The difference between an engine with a small enough cam for a stock stall convertor will typically not make major horsepower. But if you took exactly the same engine and combo and run a small enough cam for a stock torque convertor, then you switch to a little bigger cam and put in a 3000 or even slightly less stall convertor you are talking probably a full second in ET easily for probably a couple hundred dollars extra. I know you said you won't be racing at the track, but the same principles apply wherever you intend to race. If you build an engine with a power band of say, 3000-6000 the stall convertor gets you into your powerband immediately when you stomp it. It's not just from a dead stop. Also the tranny can tend be fussy at stop lights with a large cam and a stock stall convertor. Also a 3000 stall in a street car is not radical at all. It's not like you'll be driving around at 3000 RPM everywhere you go. It only stalls 3000 when you floor it and really put the torque to it. In fact if your engine doesn't have alot of torque it won't even stall to 3000.
With that being said, I haven't seen the exact specs of your cam. I do know Comp Cams makes some real nice grinds in the Extreme Energy line that you may want to look at if you are absolutely going to use stock convertor. Some of them have pretty agressive lobes which is what your engine will need to try and fool the engine into thinking it has a small cam when it really has a fairly decent cam. What I mean is it has a short advertised duration, and fairly large duration @.050" as well as a fairly high lift for the relatively small advertised duration. Again, I don't know the specs of the cam you are looking at. It may have aggressive lobes like that.
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.239 about the cam
No score for this post April 21 2001, 7:23 AM
Thanks for your reply.
About the cam, it's the Dual Energy Cam from Comp Cams, the powerband is from 2000-6000 rpm, advertised duration int=275-285exh, dur @.050"= 219int, 232 exh,
lift int. 515" - exh .541"
Application: High performance street cam. Superior high end power. Works with stock converter. Choppy idle.
The reason for the Dual Energy is because of the small intake port on the D3VA head, so I increased the lift there to help ballance the flow.(Also how much lift can these heads take without touching the piston?)
If thise cam is not good (on power or combination) what cam lift and duration would you suggest?( I think ill use the performer RPM instead of the Weiand intake)
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Mike R.
(no login)
4.16.193.115 cam
No score for this post April 23 2001, 11:12 PM
I think that cam will be real good if you stick with the stock convertor. It has pretty nice specs for a mild street cam. As long as you go into it realizing it will not be putting out 500 horsepower. I think you're looking at about 375-400 and if that's what you're after then this is a nice cam for that.
I ran your setup (at least a guesstimate of it) on my software. My software has been calibrated using my own cars, so while it's not 100% accurate it's usually pretty close. The launch is always a huge variable. With your car (assuming a weight of 3200#), a 3.50 gear, and decent traction with the stock convertor and that cam it cam up with low 13's at 106 MPH. With a 3500 stall and a slightly bigger cam it came up with high 11's at 114 MPH. So what this basically shows you is how much potential you have there. Also a 2500 stall showed mid 12's at 109 MPH.
I realize you said you will not be drag racing, but this is just to help give you some indication of what performance you can expect with the choices you have in front of you. So it all just depends on how fast you want it to be.
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514MUSTANG
(no login)
12.13.226.16 WHAT KIND OF GAS CAN YOU GET?
No score for this post April 23 2001, 1:21 PM
WHAT KIND OF GAS DO YOU HAVE IN THE CARIBBEAN? AND YES D3 HEADS ARE GOING TO LIMIT THE OUTPUT OF THIS ENGINE DO TO PORT SIZE ON EXHAUST SIDE NOT VALVE SIZE. DON'T INCREASES COMPRESSION VERY MUCH IT'S SO HARD TO GET A 460 TO RUN COOL IN A 89 MUSTANG. A 10" CONVERTER IS A MUST OR IT WILL BE A DOG. THIS WILL SOUND STOOPED BUT YOU MITE WANT TO RUN 3.25S SOUNDS CRAZY AND WONT GO AT THE TRACK BUT WORKS ON THE STREET. COMP CAM EXTREME ENERGY CAMS WORK GREAT FOR LOW RPM ENGINES"UNDER 6000". DON'T BUY A HIGH RPM INTAKE FOR THE SIZE CAM AND HEADS YOU ARE THINKING.A 460 IN A MUSTANG IS ONE FUN RIDE I KNOW.
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.205 all types..
No score for this post April 23 2001, 10:31 PM
Thanks for all of your reply's on my questions 514MUSTANG, you've been a great help to me ! Here on the island we don't have many "Ford Freaks" only Ch$&*vy ...
No one here ever thought about putting a 351 or 460 in their stang. (302 is the best...so they think)
So nothing better than gettin a good info from the States.. as where I used to live there (Melboure, Florida) The thing I liked the best was walking from school to Pep Boys or Automotive Enterprises.. loved looking at performance parts.. and sad but true , our biggest performance store here is as big as 7-eleven.LOL..thats the truth.
As about now I'm looking for a set of D0VE heads (do you know what car I have to look for?)
we get all types of racing fuel here in the caribbean.
Just to let you know , we also have a dragstrip here.
U can check us out at www.curstreet.com , we are going to have an event this week.
..So about the intake , should I look for the weiand stealth? also the cam from comp cams DEH275 says U can use a stock converter, thats the reason I wanted it, and also because of the lift it has on the exhaust side, just to help it flow a little bit extra.
What would you recomend?
Thanks,
Jack
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514 MUSTANG
(no login)
12.13.226.12 1968-429 1970-460S ALL HAVE BETTER HEADS
No score for this post April 24 2001, 1:13 PM
ALL CAR 429 AND THEN 460 68 TO 70 C8,C9 AND D0 HEADS ARE A BETTER STARTING PONT THEN D3.DON'T CONFUSE BEING ABLE TO USE A STOCK CONVERTER WITH USING ONE AND HAVING A GREAT COMBO.YOU SAID THAT A C4 TRANS IS WHAT YOUR GOING TO USE SEE IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A 11" CONVERTER. IF SO AND THERE IS A TRANS SHOP THAT WORKS ON THEM THEY CAN MAKE IT SAY 200 OR 400RPM HIGHER AND WITH A 460 IT GO TO STALL HIGHER ANYWAY.
I have a Mustang GT 1989, and still haven't decided what parts to buy.
The primeary ones that I need are the swap headers for fox body, oil pan and motormounts.
I allready have the c-4 with bellhousing, stock torque converter, stock flexplate, rebuild kit for c-4, richmond 3.73 rear gears, 3 row radiator, lakewoof lift bars, 50/50 lakewood rear shocks, Stock D3VA heads milled to the most, ported intake&exhaust, stock valves.
Please help me out , where I live (in the caribbean) there aren't many ford freaks , only chevy.
I want to show them what a ford can do on the street.
( I used to race the Mustang with the 302 on the strip, but since I got married, I started selling all the high performance parts I had for the 302 like 12.8 pistons , nitrous, ballanced block, etc...)
but because once you start dragracing your wallet never stops racing either LOL, so then I decided to buy a 460 and produce more power and torque , just for the street.....in the meantime.....LOL
So please help me out.. as I was planning to order the parts you could see on this forum, at summit racing.(are they the cheapest raceparts sellers?
Please help me out on this one.
Jack
email: [email protected]
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Author Reply
514 MUSTANG
(no login)
12.13.226.14 HEADS
No score for this post April 18 2001, 12:38 PM
PLEASE TELL ME YOU CAN COME UP WITH A BETTER SET OF HEADS.
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.246 reply Heads
No score for this post April 19 2001, 12:54 PM
are the D3VA heads so bad?
Eventough I port the intake and exhaust, milled heads for a little extra bump in compression?
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Mike R.
(no login)
32.97.239.28 budget 460
No score for this post April 19 2001, 1:46 PM
Well here's my 2 cents worth.
If you are definately sticking with the D3VE heads I would probably get larger valves installed in the heads and make sure they are ported pretty well. I would get the TRW/Speed Pro L2443NF dome pistons to try and boost the compression and because they are some of the cheaper 460 pistons you will find. I would try to get ahold of some cj, truck, or marine rods if possible. Use a stock 460 crank, a Weind stealth intake, headers (not manifolds), and an 850 holley.
I would put alot of thought into using at least a 3000 stall convertor if not a 3500. I like TCI brand convertors. Without the convertor your cam choices could be very limited and that means your horsepower could also be very limited. With a 3000 or more stall (assuming you want to stay conservative on the cam) I would probably look at some of the Comp cams extreme energy grinds with about 230-240 duration at .050" and .550-600" lift.
I would try to spend my money on the basics, but if alot of machine work is involved it could add up prettty quickly.
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.252 about he stall converter
No score for this post April 19 2001, 6:08 PM
isn't a stall converter only required if you're going to the strip? At least , that is what i've heard.
I'm planning to use a stock torque converter for the
c-4 because I will not use the car for the strip.
Isn't a torque converter only used for the launch when holding up the brakes?( I'm not that experinced with automatics, never liked them, I only used to drive stick cars)
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Walt Barnes
(no login)
12.36.108.218 converters - BTDT-GTTS
No score for this post April 19 2001, 9:58 PM
Street? Strip? Yes and no.
At the strip (or at a stop light) if your stock converter prevents you from launching at a high enough RPM the engine will not be in the power band. If your hot cam makes you engine a dog below 3000 RPM and your converter stalls as 1200 RPM, you will have to CRAWL as the RPM builds up, UNLESS YOU ARE RUNNING ON STREET TIRES. If you are running street tires with a big block you'll have so much torque you'll be feathering the gas to get the best launch. If you just rip the launch your tires will go up in smoke and you won't go anywhere. Unless you have enough tire to hook don't bother with a high stall converter.
On the street why would you want a 500 HP car anyway? I guess to be able to nail it and have some fun, right? If smoking the tires is part of your idea of having fun, then a higher stall converter will help. (Lots of guys with small blocks stick in a high stall converter just so they CAN rally smoke the tires.) If you are used to clutches and manual transmissions, think of it this way. A stock 1500 RPM converter is like dumping the clutch at 1500 RPM. You can probably smoke 'em from a stop light, but it is soooo much more impressive to drop the clutch from 3000 RPM isn't it. And if you're rolling a little and floor it, the 1500 RPM converter is going to be just like idling along in first at 1500 RPM and flooring it. Expect it to bog and then slowly climb up into the power band. But if you're rolling along at 10 MPH and floor it with a 3000 RPM converter that engine will spin right up to 3000 RPM - or a little beyond - and then send all that torque back to the wheels. Whether the tires can hold it or smoke depends on your tires at that point.
If you really aren't going to the strip, don't make the converter your first expense. But the car will be a little more "fun" to drive with more stall if you really build an engine that is a dog down low. If you are not going to the strip, 3000 RPM may be a bit excessive, but 2200 RPM to 2600 RPM would probably suit you.
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.215 Thanks for you help! What about..
No score for this post April 20 2001, 7:18 AM
The cam I was planning to buy is the DEH275 from comp. cams , that say that it's the highest cam you can use with a stock converter.
And you are right , just planning to build the car and have fun!
I've just sold my MT ET Drag Sligs, so it would occur again going to the strip. At least not for now.
......until the dragbug bites again!
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Mike R.
(no login)
32.97.239.14 stall convertor
No score for this post April 20 2001, 2:48 PM
I like sticks also. They are more, but also cause more breakage.
My thinking on the stall convertor is this. The difference between an engine with a small enough cam for a stock stall convertor will typically not make major horsepower. But if you took exactly the same engine and combo and run a small enough cam for a stock torque convertor, then you switch to a little bigger cam and put in a 3000 or even slightly less stall convertor you are talking probably a full second in ET easily for probably a couple hundred dollars extra. I know you said you won't be racing at the track, but the same principles apply wherever you intend to race. If you build an engine with a power band of say, 3000-6000 the stall convertor gets you into your powerband immediately when you stomp it. It's not just from a dead stop. Also the tranny can tend be fussy at stop lights with a large cam and a stock stall convertor. Also a 3000 stall in a street car is not radical at all. It's not like you'll be driving around at 3000 RPM everywhere you go. It only stalls 3000 when you floor it and really put the torque to it. In fact if your engine doesn't have alot of torque it won't even stall to 3000.
With that being said, I haven't seen the exact specs of your cam. I do know Comp Cams makes some real nice grinds in the Extreme Energy line that you may want to look at if you are absolutely going to use stock convertor. Some of them have pretty agressive lobes which is what your engine will need to try and fool the engine into thinking it has a small cam when it really has a fairly decent cam. What I mean is it has a short advertised duration, and fairly large duration @.050" as well as a fairly high lift for the relatively small advertised duration. Again, I don't know the specs of the cam you are looking at. It may have aggressive lobes like that.
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Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.239 about the cam
No score for this post April 21 2001, 7:23 AM
Thanks for your reply.
About the cam, it's the Dual Energy Cam from Comp Cams, the powerband is from 2000-6000 rpm, advertised duration int=275-285exh, dur @.050"= 219int, 232 exh,
lift int. 515" - exh .541"
Application: High performance street cam. Superior high end power. Works with stock converter. Choppy idle.
The reason for the Dual Energy is because of the small intake port on the D3VA head, so I increased the lift there to help ballance the flow.(Also how much lift can these heads take without touching the piston?)
If thise cam is not good (on power or combination) what cam lift and duration would you suggest?( I think ill use the performer RPM instead of the Weiand intake)
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Mike R.
(no login)
4.16.193.115 cam
No score for this post April 23 2001, 11:12 PM
I think that cam will be real good if you stick with the stock convertor. It has pretty nice specs for a mild street cam. As long as you go into it realizing it will not be putting out 500 horsepower. I think you're looking at about 375-400 and if that's what you're after then this is a nice cam for that.
I ran your setup (at least a guesstimate of it) on my software. My software has been calibrated using my own cars, so while it's not 100% accurate it's usually pretty close. The launch is always a huge variable. With your car (assuming a weight of 3200#), a 3.50 gear, and decent traction with the stock convertor and that cam it cam up with low 13's at 106 MPH. With a 3500 stall and a slightly bigger cam it came up with high 11's at 114 MPH. So what this basically shows you is how much potential you have there. Also a 2500 stall showed mid 12's at 109 MPH.
I realize you said you will not be drag racing, but this is just to help give you some indication of what performance you can expect with the choices you have in front of you. So it all just depends on how fast you want it to be.
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
514MUSTANG
(no login)
12.13.226.16 WHAT KIND OF GAS CAN YOU GET?
No score for this post April 23 2001, 1:21 PM
WHAT KIND OF GAS DO YOU HAVE IN THE CARIBBEAN? AND YES D3 HEADS ARE GOING TO LIMIT THE OUTPUT OF THIS ENGINE DO TO PORT SIZE ON EXHAUST SIDE NOT VALVE SIZE. DON'T INCREASES COMPRESSION VERY MUCH IT'S SO HARD TO GET A 460 TO RUN COOL IN A 89 MUSTANG. A 10" CONVERTER IS A MUST OR IT WILL BE A DOG. THIS WILL SOUND STOOPED BUT YOU MITE WANT TO RUN 3.25S SOUNDS CRAZY AND WONT GO AT THE TRACK BUT WORKS ON THE STREET. COMP CAM EXTREME ENERGY CAMS WORK GREAT FOR LOW RPM ENGINES"UNDER 6000". DON'T BUY A HIGH RPM INTAKE FOR THE SIZE CAM AND HEADS YOU ARE THINKING.A 460 IN A MUSTANG IS ONE FUN RIDE I KNOW.
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
Anonymous
(no login)
216.219.36.205 all types..
No score for this post April 23 2001, 10:31 PM
Thanks for all of your reply's on my questions 514MUSTANG, you've been a great help to me ! Here on the island we don't have many "Ford Freaks" only Ch$&*vy ...
No one here ever thought about putting a 351 or 460 in their stang. (302 is the best...so they think)
So nothing better than gettin a good info from the States.. as where I used to live there (Melboure, Florida) The thing I liked the best was walking from school to Pep Boys or Automotive Enterprises.. loved looking at performance parts.. and sad but true , our biggest performance store here is as big as 7-eleven.LOL..thats the truth.
As about now I'm looking for a set of D0VE heads (do you know what car I have to look for?)
we get all types of racing fuel here in the caribbean.
Just to let you know , we also have a dragstrip here.
U can check us out at www.curstreet.com , we are going to have an event this week.
..So about the intake , should I look for the weiand stealth? also the cam from comp cams DEH275 says U can use a stock converter, thats the reason I wanted it, and also because of the lift it has on the exhaust side, just to help it flow a little bit extra.
What would you recomend?
Thanks,
Jack
Score 1 2 3 4 5 (5=Excellent) Edit Message Delete Message Lock Thread Respond to this message
514 MUSTANG
(no login)
12.13.226.12 1968-429 1970-460S ALL HAVE BETTER HEADS
No score for this post April 24 2001, 1:13 PM
ALL CAR 429 AND THEN 460 68 TO 70 C8,C9 AND D0 HEADS ARE A BETTER STARTING PONT THEN D3.DON'T CONFUSE BEING ABLE TO USE A STOCK CONVERTER WITH USING ONE AND HAVING A GREAT COMBO.YOU SAID THAT A C4 TRANS IS WHAT YOUR GOING TO USE SEE IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A 11" CONVERTER. IF SO AND THERE IS A TRANS SHOP THAT WORKS ON THEM THEY CAN MAKE IT SAY 200 OR 400RPM HIGHER AND WITH A 460 IT GO TO STALL HIGHER ANYWAY.
